The Dow Red Stick Rumble - A Report

[MysterE]

Good evening CD,

I often find that I am in the position of having to choose when to write or not to write on any forum. I learned a long time ago that responding to open accusation or inevitable conflict can't be done when one is tired and sensitive to what is happening around me.

With that in mind, I've been watching the other post concerning the Red Stick Rumble and after watching one of my own students post, I think I need to discuss the event as a whole. Before I begin I need to state that this event is ran by my team, FIRST Team 3337, Panthrobotics and is not in any way affiliated with any official FIRST event.

First, let me explain my belief about the off-season event that we run. The Dow Red Stick Rumble exists for three primary purposes.

1) To provide the surrounding community a thorough demonstration of the power of FIRST Robotics to create powerful STEM experiences and thus changing the lives of its participants.

2) To allow teams the opportunity to replay the previous year's game with the idea that new members can take part. This means that we as well as others use less experience drivers and often have robots that by now have been abused through many demonstrations and the like. I never wanted an IRI as this is not primarily about the competition but about the camaraderie.

3) To provide an atmosphere for my students to learn how to run a Four Program event (FRC, FTC, FLL, and JFLL). They act as volunteers, as area representatives, ambassadors, referees, and so on.

What we are not hosting is an event where we expect harsh competition, powerhouse alliances, and the like. Yes - this does happen but we also recognize that most of the teams that have come to join the Red Stick Rumble are not a powerhouse team. We are teams that are still growing.

In this, I believe that the way we handle our event is justified by its ends. Due to a scheduling mishap between the Louisiana High School Sports Association, our school, myself, and a myriad of others, our event ended up scheduled on the same day as a volleyball tournament. We were required to change our dates. As a result we lost 9 teams and a number of important volunteers including all but one officially trained referee. We also lost an entire team (456) who historically is one of the most helpful teams I've ever met in FIRST in regards to event flow, setup, and tear-down. (Sorry. . . just a plug for an amazing team). Most had ACT testing, other commitments, etcetera.

Due to this, we chose to adopt a different set of rules a week prior to competition. With only having one official referee who could not be present until the day of the event, we went with the same rules that will be applied at the Chezy Champs later this month. This was made clear in a mass email sent out to teams a week prior to the event.

On the day of the event, we had sixteen teams scheduled to compete. This led myself as well as our FTA, FTAA, and other acronyms to decide to hold a traditional eight alliance elimination match except with only 2 teams per alliance.

Unfortunately, one of the teams was a no show. As is our policy we allowed the games to go on as scheduled - hoping that our no show would. .well. .show. They did not. We used lunch time to determine how we would change the alliance selection procedure. We went with five alliances of three teams where the 1st seed received a bye.

Due to the lack of a strong selection pool we went with a rule that is common at many off-seasons where the five top seeds were not allowed to select from among themselves. This made sure that we did not invalidate the goals of the off-season as a whole.

All teams competed in the eliminations. Team 3039, Wildcat Robotics from Destrahan, Louisiana, 2992, the SS Promethius, from Mandeville, Louisiana, and 4209, Tigerbytes, from Baton Rouge, Louisiana came away with the 2015 Dow Red Stick Rumble win.

As a whole, the event was an amazing success. We had over 190 FLL students participate in a Fast Start directed by the Louisiana State University Peer Mentor program. All reported an amazing time. The Louisiana Junior FIRST Lego League partner gave a presentation to coaches on how to start a JFLL team in their school. This program is still very small and growing. I've received a lot of positive reviews from many of the FRC teams as well - including teams who made it to practice for the first time before competing or in the case of the TigerBytes won their first trophy ever.

We managed to raise $200.00 in support of a child with Leukemia as well as had 23 people donate blood to help her through her chemotherapy. School officials, possible donors to the Bayou Regional, Dow officials, and many others came through as well as a myriad of students and adults from the public all with the same look they all have - "So this is what robotics does."

My students acted admirably throughout the entire event - working as field reset, referees, score-keepers, safety-glasses attendants, garbage clean-up...you name it they did it.

These were our successes. Where did we fail?

Our biggest failure was with our FTC event. There was some confusion in regards to which control system was being used. We were unable to find the old control system software until the day of the event due to changes in its location on the FIRST website. Some teams had the JAVA system others had the Legacy system and that created some issues. This was our first year running an FTC event without help from our regional partner in Texas and I learned that smaller robots do not necessarily mean easier events.

A positive report though - we ended up having a good competition. We developed our own method of setting up a round robin game system and after some bumps the teams all had fun. Most importantly, they worked with us in getting the event moving smoothly and even offered help in working with our growing FTC group through the state.

Secondarily - communication. This was, admittedly, the hardest Rumble that I've run. Changes in schedule, loss of volunteers, the immensity of a four program event - it was a big deal. This is especially true of a Social Studies teacher turned robot coach. Many decisions were made on the fly with help from our AndyMark officials who had been to many more events than I could even fathom. Unfortunately this meant that some teams found out information much later than would been desired.

I was approached by one person expressing issues with the way that the event was run. This was done once while I was preparing for closing ceremonies and once when they were leaving prior to the end of the event. I will be honest. I referred them - as I believe is standard policy - back to the FTA and FTAA to discuss the changes in alliance selection. When I was handed our buttons and told that they would not be returning, I responded in as civil a manner as I could considering the method in which it was presented. I said, "As you wish."

All of the facts are true. Yes - we changed rules last minute. Yes - I did not take time to discuss the issue at the time. Yes - this could have been handled differently. Blame it on stress, on the pressure of a huge event at the end of the day after spending 72 hours setting it up.

But in the end, I stand behind all of our decisions as I saw the bulk of the teams present enjoy their experience. I stand behind our kids and the amount of work that they did to make this successful. I stand behind the results that the Rumble brings to my community, to my state, to the states around us, and to the overall perception of FIRST robotics across the entire Bayou Regional area.

I am definitely not perfect. I am definitely prone to responding in sarcasm when I am approached in anger. I am definitely prone to dancing around with the students, doing the whip and the nae nae. But I am also prone to recognizing that it is not my job to make everything work perfectly. All I can do is improve. Every year.

Next year we will have another Red Stick Rumble. Some teams will join us, other teams will not. I can't change those decisions. What I can say is that what we will do is try our best. When that is not good enough, we will try again.

Thank you.
-Daniel L. Eiland
Red Stick Rumble Coordinator
Proud Coach for FIRST Team 3337, Panthrobotics.

[GeeTwo]

Dan,
As I believe I relayed to you several months ago, 3946 decided not to compete at RSR because we felt that there was more for us to learn from a new intramural game than an old FRC game. I intended to volunteer for RSR until I realized that both the first day of our tryouts and our FLL fast start were on the same day as RSR, so that was a non-starter.

I have read the comments on the "other thread", and I do intend my takes on this to be positive feedback for next year, with the understanding that they may be based on biased inputs. I absolutely respect you personally, as well as your volunteer of the year award, and your team, and it's regional chairman's award received this year.

If I had 16 teams at an event, I would have only had four alliances go to the playoff/elimination rounds. Having exactly one team sit out playoffs is the worst, especially for that one team. Twelve of sixteen teams in playoffs would have been better than fifteen of sixteen. It would have been even better (with exactly 16) to have the four alliances each select a fourth team (similar to CMP) than to have what I understand happened. That said, I don't know when you determined exactly how many teams you would have at the competition, so perhaps this argument doesn't apply.

Finally, as to your decision to not allow the prospective alliance captains to select each other as partners, this strikes me as more a matter of personal taste rather than something absolute, especially for an off-season event. The important thing, of course, is that this situation be communicated in advance, not something found out by the teams at competition. With foreknowledge, this would not render scouting useless, but make it even more important than is the normal case with FRC. It doesn't take too much scouting for team #1 to pick team #2. For team #1 to be restricted to offering alliances to teams 5-16 or 6-16 makes scouting crucial.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MysterE

I will be honest. I referred them - as I believe is standard policy - back to the FTA and FTAA to discuss the changes in alliance selection.

Just as a note:

As far as I am aware, at most offseason events, it is the event committee, or such members as are actually present, who are responsible for determining the alliance selection to be used. While the FTA/FTAA may be on that committee, the responsibility generally falls on the committee as a whole--and more particularly on the spokesperson for that committee--to determine, and especially announce, decisions of this nature.




As another note, I am aware of at least one event with no less than FOUR plans for playoffs/eliminations, all publicly posted, covering any number of teams starting at 12 and going up to "so how many showed up this year?". (On the other hand, I have seen that event modify on the fly because time was not their friend--but they'll announce to all teams, and it's because of time not number of teams.)

[craigcd]

If you want to attend the locally supported and the only off season event in Southern Louisiana the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to compete on an official First field, playing timed matches with referee's the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to give you rookie drivers a chance to play against other teams in a realistic game environment the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to preview the 2015 FLL game and ask the Regional Director and the Event Coordinator for the Louisiana tournament questions the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want the play this years FTC game and ask questions to teams that competed then the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want good food and ice cream and make friends from the teams that you have played against then the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to be inflexible and rigid and not able to adapt then good luck.
If you want to complain and think you can do better then start your own off season event.

I will admit that the Red Stick this year was a little rough. Knowing all the rule changes from the official game would have been nice to know upfront but to me that is not a show stopper. I like the rule about the first five teams not being able to pick in the top five. This event can and will get better. My team will be back next year and thanks to First Team 3337 for all the time and effort that you have put in.

[bowmanb]

Originally Posted by craigcd

If you want to attend the locally supported and the only off season event in Southern Louisiana the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to compete on an official First field, playing timed matches with referee's the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to give you rookie drivers a chance to play against other teams in a realistic game environment the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to preview the 2015 FLL game and ask the Regional Director and the Event Coordinator for the Louisiana tournament questions the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want the play this years FTC game and ask questions to teams that competed then the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want good food and ice cream and make friends from the teams that you have played against then the Red Stick Rumble is for you.
If you want to be inflexible and rigid and not able to adapt then good luck.
If you want to complain and think you can do better then start your own off season event.

I will admit that the Red Stick this year was a little rough. Knowing all the rule changes from the official game would have been nice to know upfront but to me that is not a show stopper. I like the rule about the first five teams not being able to pick in the top five. This event can and will get better. My team will be back next year and thanks to First Team 3337 for all the time and effort that you have put in.

craigcd says it perfectly. Our team accomplished exactly what we set out to do, which was introduce new members to the joys of FRC and work on the composition of our new drive team after graduating. RSR allowed us to do this in a low pressure environment. Thank you Daniel and Panthrobotics for all your hard work and persistence in putting this event on.

[bowmanb]

And another thing, I like the No Pick Captains rule, especially with this game were there is such a huge spread in robot capabilities. Without it you get results like we witnessed at Lone Star in Houston this year where Robonauts and Kryptonite combined to wipe the floor with all comers. They were so far above the rest of the field that they didn't even allow the third robot on the field!

We all would have been better served at that event if the talent had been better distributed. As it was, the end result was a foregone conclusion before the first match was played.

At Champs where the teams are more evenly matched, the picking down-alliance makes more sense.

[jee7s]

Off-seasons are a funny thing because they are interpreted so differently by so many teams. And, oddly enough, paying a modest sum of money seems to be at the core of the differences.

Some teams approach it as "well, it's a little money so we can get a field to play on and have some fun." While, for others, it's a "dang it, we paid for this and it should be better" attitude.

As the TRR Competition Coordinator (i.e. the guy who oversees all the rules changes, enforcement, etc), I've found myself tackling the same issues Daniel had to this past weekend. So many teams will register, but not all will show up. Some will register late, some will register early. It's just such a game of chance, and it's one where those of us who run these events need to deal with hard questions about the health of our events.

Take for example this year's TRR. We were planning on 4 team alliances for eliminations. But, we had so many no-shows that we ended up with only 27 teams. The decision is "easy" (quotes very much intended): just go to 3 team alliances. But, that means that three teams need to sit out. That can be hard to explain to people who paid good money to attend the event.

Or, go back to 2013 TRR, when our volunteers (particularly our referees) were downright worn down by teams wanting to win. We went 5 matches straight with the question mark box full for questions during eliminations. Our head ref that year, who is an excellent person, just couldn't handle the onslaught of teams pressing their questions out of their drive to win. We had to remind mentors around the field to not yell at the referees who are just human beings trying to do a good job. I don't blame those teams for wanting to win. But, when you get a volunteer crew that normally works one event, and decides to help you out through the goodness of their heart, and then has to deal with championship level stress after the AC fails in August in Texas, well, it's tough to retain all of them.

For the past three years running, we've had a World Champion team in the field at TRR. Oddly enough, for all of the arguments relating to "competitive" teams, we've found these teams and pretty much all the others at TRR to be nothing less than professional.

The thing about growing an event it just that: you need to grow it. It takes years, it takes effort, it takes both consistency and situations that are stable enough to make that consistency apparent. When things go wrong, you and your volunteers will take it on the chin. When things go right, some people will thank you, but it's not like a chorus of cheers. Registration will go up, registration will go down, you'll falter and you'll succeed. It takes time to establish the character of your event. But, sticking with it means a better community for you, your team, your state, and your region.

So, Daniel and the rest of the Red Stick organizers, keep up the good work. Don't let this year's perfect mis-alignment of the stars stop you from trying again next year.

[AdamHeard]

It takes a lot of volunteer effort, know how and institutional inertia to get a good (closer to season competition) offseason event going.

California is in a pretty good spot now for offseasons, but for a long time most of the events were similar to the Red Stick Rumble.

In many ways, that's GOOD for the kids if you mentally frame it right. It being so low key and low pressure allows students that might not have felt ready to drive, be pit crew, etc.. for a "competitive" team to have a chance to experience such roles without fear of letting themselves or anyone else down.

It's nice if you're able to do both lower key and higher level off season events, but if the lower key ones are your only option embrace it and go.

Certainly, don't expect a low key offseason to run like IRI and then hold the people running the event personally accountable for the mismatch in expectations in you framed in your mind.

[Dan Petrovic]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Having exactly one team sit out playoffs is the worst, especially for that one team

166 has been running an off-season event in early June/late May since 2005 and I don't think we've ever had any visiting teams sit out from playoffs. We achieve this by pulling ourselves from playoffs and due to the continued help of 1519. They haven't missed any of our events and always have their practice robot available if we need to even up alliances.

If we're at 16 teams, then we will pull ourselves from playoffs. If we're at 17 teams, then 1519 runs their practice robot and everything shakes out.

We're committed to making sure that every visiting team has a full competition experience at our events and, thankfully, we have nearby teams to thank for helping us with that.

[DiehardCybercard]

Daniel there is a story I hadn't shared with you that happened at your event while I was providing field support. I think you and others should know about this.

There was a rookie team or a team that was maybe two years old, I cant recall a number. During a match their robot dropped power after a large hit into the landfill. Because the robot did a full reboot to that power drop they didn't realize they had control of the robot once it came back. They figured it out after a few moments as I walked over to them. At the end of the match I encouraged them to check their wires.

The next time they were up I stood behind their driver station watching the field monitor waiting for them so if they were to drop I could tell them to go immediately after things came back online. Thankfully it seems checking their wires had fixed potential issues since they didn't drop this time.

As I'm watching the mentor is trying to get the student to do a task. The mentor was trying to communicate to the student to drive to the landfill and use the corner of the chassis to wedge out the totes. They have no mechanisms on their robot just a drivebase. I realize they're attempting to break up the landfill then push a tote onto the scoring platform. They're not really in sync with their communication between the student and coach but within the last ten to five seconds the student managed to get one tote on the scoring platform.

The buzzer quickly went off and the match was over. The mentor grabbed the student and embraced them. The drive coach and the two students started jumping up and down. "You did it! You scored a tote!" The mentor celebrated this student and lemme tell ya, this kid had an ear to ear grin.

The amount of excitement on this students face from completing just one task on the field filled me with all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings. This team had a success that day.

Daniel, you do a great service to Louisiana teams and surrounding teams by providing this event. There was a wonderful interaction where a student was inspired and praised for their talents. This may have not happened without your event. I feel lucky to have been at the right place at the right time to see this amazing occurrence between a mentor and students. Your event lent itself to one of the warm fuzzy good things FIRST is all about.

I don't volunteer at events for any political reason or because I get paid to. I volunteer and do events because I get to help provide an environment that cultivates these moments. Please continue to host Red Stick Rumble. It is one of my favourite events and as long as you have it I will be happy to drive that field down to you.