FRC Blog - Inter-District play in 2016

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by first3234

When Hawaii goes to districts and if there's spots available we will welcome you here to Michigan

You're already free to compete at the Hawaii regional. On the other hand, Hawaii teams can't do the opposite and compete in Michigan. And what about teams in areas where supporting a district system can't happen in the near future, if ever?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Aren Siekmeier

And what about teams in areas where supporting a district system can't happen in the near future, if ever?

You mean like Hawaii?

Here's the #1 problem with districts in HI.

It's NOT the number of teams.
It's NOT the distance from the mainland.


It's that Every. Single. Time. a team from HI wants to compete in a location that is NOT on their island, they have to airfreight the robot AND fly the team (well, they could possibly catch a ferry... but that takes a lot longer).


So, for those of you in MI, particularly the Lower Peninsula, to understand: You need to attend an event at the MN border, and the Mackinac Bridge is out (and there's a ferry starting in Detroit if you really want to take a couple of days). Now make that TWO districts like that. That's Hawaii's problem, in a nutshell.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by EricH

You mean like Hawaii?

Here's the #1 problem with districts in HI.

It's NOT the number of teams.
It's NOT the distance from the mainland.


It's that Every. Single. Time. a team from HI wants to compete in a location that is NOT on their island, they have to airfreight the robot AND fly the team (well, they could possibly catch a ferry... but that takes a lot longer).


So, for those of you in MI, particularly the Lower Peninsula, to understand: You need to attend an event at the MN border, and the Mackinac Bridge is out (and there's a ferry starting in Detroit if you really want to take a couple of days). Now make that TWO districts like that. That's Hawaii's problem, in a nutshell.

I wish it was that good.
The teams that are not on Oahu complain every year. The amount they spend to compete in Honolulu is astronomical and more than half of what they would spend to compete in California as an example.
Robots have to be flown to every event attended other than Oahu teams. There is no ferry that you speak of. Long gone. Robots would never be able to compete in back to back weekends due to the way it has to ship from event to event.
With hotel expenses, the neighbor island teams find themselves spending a lot more than us who can go home daily.
Driving to an event makes districts more feasible. Being from Hawaii makes it just about impossible both financially and logistically.

[Paul Copioli]

Glenn,

This is one of the prices you pay for living in paradise my friend.

[Ryan Dognaux]

The real question is will inter-district play be ready for 2017? We'll have even more districts by then and will probably hit a point where multiple districts border each other (especially if Illinois goes it alone and Missouri / Kansas create their own).

I'd hate to see some of our southern Illinois friends have to drive hours when they have events 20-30 minutes away in St. Louis.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

The real question is will inter-district play be ready for 2017? We'll have even more districts by then and will probably hit a point where multiple districts border each other (especially if Illinois goes it alone and Missouri / Kansas create their own).

I'd hate to see some of our southern Illinois friends have to drive hours when they have events 20-30 minutes away in St. Louis.

Many of those teams trace their roots to the beginning of the St. Louis Regional. Keeping them out of district play in their home area would be wrong.

I feel the same way about Indiana, Ohio, and Ontario teams that competed in the Great Lakes Regional, back in the day. Excluding them from FiM districts may have been necessary* to get district-style competition started, but I don't believe it should be necessary to repeat that pain elsewhere now.

----------
*A debatable topic, but the debate is moot now.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by EricH

So, for those of you in MI, particularly the Lower Peninsula, to understand: You need to attend an event at the MN border, and the Mackinac Bridge is out (and there's a ferry starting in Detroit if you really want to take a couple of days). Now make that TWO districts like that. That's Hawaii's problem, in a nutshell.

I tease a little, but you could just go via Chicago in this situation.

Probably more like the event is on Isle Royale.

[MARS_James]

I am hoping one day preferably sooner rather then later FIRST will allow individual teams to choose what their team will be doing, what I mean is you have a list of every District with a button and then a Regional System button. Let teams who geographically are closer to a district, even if it isn't their "home" district, choose to be in a district while teams in a district who geographically better suited to go to a regional choose to opt out of a districts. It has become abundantly clear that state borders do not make the best markers for district borders.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

I am hoping one day preferably sooner rather then later FIRST will allow individual teams to choose what their team will be doing, what I mean is you have a list of every District with a button and then a Regional System button. Let teams who geographically are closer to a district, even if it isn't their "home" district, choose to be in a district while teams in a district who geographically better suited to go to a regional choose to opt out of a districts. It has become abundantly clear that state borders do not make the best markers for district borders.

But for tracking teams the state boarders are the best available solution currently. Having teams be able to opt in or out would create a logistical nightmare for FIRST and the organizations running the individual districts. I do agree that state lines are not the best for the teams though. Case in point that I'm very familiar with is Idaho. The teams in the northern part of the state are as little as 30 min away from the locations we've held a district event and last year the DCMP. So many of them ended up going to Calgary which prevented some teams from attending a second event like they had in the past. The new Boise Regional will be better.

Originally FIRST wanted all or none of ID, for ease of sorting teams, but we eventually them convinced to allow the N. ID teams to join the PNW district. Because of the effort to make Boise happen that decision was reversed.

[aspiece]

Here is my reflection on our experience with inner district play last year. http://aspiece.blogspot.com/2015/05/...tunity-to.html

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

I am hoping one day preferably sooner rather then later FIRST will allow individual teams to choose what their team will be doing, what I mean is you have a list of every District with a button and then a Regional System button. Let teams who geographically are closer to a district, even if it isn't their "home" district, choose to be in a district while teams in a district who geographically better suited to go to a regional choose to opt out of a districts. It has become abundantly clear that state borders do not make the best markers for district borders.

While something like this would certainly help many "borderline" teams as districts grow, it would also be a nightmare to manage. As one example, when Minnesota finally goes to districts, it'll be interesting to see what happens with Western Wisconsin and North Dakota teams that currently come to our regionals... Do they get included in the district for their ease of travel? Do they get excluded so the Minnesota State High School League can sponsor a state tournament in week 7 instead of opting out of a broader district tournament (hypothetical, I have no idea how things will work with the MSHSL when Minnesota goes to districts)?

Instead of basic "open enrollment", I could see a redistricting process every so often (maybe 5 years?) where the district borders are redrawn. It would give teams a chance to provide input as to where the borders should be, give FIRST a chance to merge or split districts as needed (for example, Michigan could split in half since it's so huge, while Indiana could merge with a neighboring state to make a larger district), and let us appropriately adapt to any funding/political changes that occur.

While state borders may not make sense in some situations, in others they might. It's not only about travel distance for teams.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Mr V

...Having teams be able to opt in or out would create a logistical nightmare for FIRST and the organizations running the individual districts...

I really don't see how that would be the case. If nothing else, you could put it in TIMS as a checkoff box for the Main Contact to select at the beginning of the season: -Regional -NE -MAR -PNW etc.

Registration info is shared from FIRST to the individual regions (including Main/Alt. Contacts); I don't see why this data couldn't also be transferred.

In a database, it's just one more column of data.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Having teams be able to opt in or out would create a logistical nightmare for FIRST and the organizations running the individual districts.

Originally Posted by Zebra_Fact_Man

I really don't see how that would be the case. If nothing else, you could put it in TIMS as a checkoff box for the Main Contact to select at the beginning of the season: -Regional -NE -MAR -PNW etc.

Registration info is shared from FIRST to the individual regions (including Main/Alt. Contacts); I don't see why this data couldn't also be transferred.

In a database, it's just one more column of data.

The nightmare is not the data. The nightmare is the logistics. For example, IndianaFIRST needed to know with a reasonable level of certainty how many teams to account for when planning the district events. That has to be done well in advance of when teams actually register. An extra dozen more, or a half dozen fewer than expected, would really hurt those plans.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Glenn,

This is one of the prices you pay for living in paradise my friend.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The nightmare is not the data. The nightmare is the logistics. For example, IndianaFIRST needed to know with a reasonable level of certainty how many teams to account for when planning the district events. That has to be done well in advance of when teams actually register. An extra dozen more, or a half dozen fewer than expected, would really hurt those plans.

I'm still un decided as to if letting teams pick what's best for them is good or not. I completely agree that the logistics of this would be a nightmare, but I do see where teams are coming from at the same time.

With that said an idea thrown around before that could work in this situation, is in order to compete in a district you don't technically belong too (i.e. Capital NY teams who want to compete in NE), is to sign a multi-year agreement to become a part of that district. Agreements would have to be signed at least 6 months prior to registration if not earlier. While a team could move after their agreement is up, ideally the culture should be once you decide on the region that makes the most sense for you, you stay there.

This allows teams to be in the district that makes the most sense for them, but at the same time prevents a constantly fluctuating amount of teams a district needs capacity for.