We're looking for a scouting system

[Kevin Leonard]

Personally I think too many teams over-reach on scouting and expect that a slightly more efficient method of scouting might provide exponentially increased returns, when in reality any well-run scouting system that gets you accurate, useful data is perfect in my book.

I know that a number of incredible teams use well-run, efficient electronic scouting systems. 1678 comes to mind as the best, but a bunch of these systems are very, very good.

However a well-run paper and excel scouting system gets the job done nearly as well, and is harder to mess up (in my opinion).

I would encourage most teams looking to advance their scouting potential first to look at a) the data you're collecting, and b) how you're aggregating it

Are you collecting useful data? Is the data you're collecting accurate?
Useful data is generally quantitative. # of goals scored, # of goals missed, etc.
Non-useful data is often qualitative. How well do they shoot? How good are they at defense? Some of this data can be obtained other ways- by smart people who have watched a lot of matches who are knowledgeable, or by working closely with their drive team during matches, but match scouting sheets don't need these metrics.

How are you aggregating the data? Can you use the data you've collected to produce picklists or to produce match strategy? Excel can be a really useful tool for this, but so can some sort of paper-and-pen system if someone wants to put in a lot of time making the data more accessible.

Once you've optimized those two factors (what you're collecting and how you use it), then you can move on to how efficiently and easily you're collecting data.

Getting a high tech scouting system, but collecting poor data or being unable to use the data is like having the best shooter in the world, but no ability to acquire game pieces consistently. It doesn't matter if your accuracy is 100% if you're never able to shoot.

EDIT: To actually answer your question instead of ranting about scouting, Team 180's Poor Man's Scouting System is absolutely phenomenal.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3098

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

We've been able to use Bluetooth and a couple of cell phone connections (for reliablity.)

Yeah, Bluetooth is a great alternative. Just make sure you have enough Bluetooth devices on hand.

[chandrew]

Scouting wise we have used Google Forms/paper copies of our forms over the past couple of years, however there have been a lot of issues with availability of WIFI to submit the forms. Beyond that though, analysis for scouting is what we encountered the most issues finding something to do. Last year we build spreadsheets as described in http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=136944 however those spreadsheets are a not exactly easy or fun to build.
The one thing I would keep in mind is that any scouting app you pick has to be something that connects to the goals of your team. That's why our team has chosen to use either google forms or printed versions of the google forms that allow for easy data entry is that scouting usually needs to be specific to what your team goals are and what your robot is built to do depending on the game.

[BitTwiddler]

Originally Posted by chandrew

The one thing I would keep in mind is that any scouting app you pick has to be something that connects to the goals of your team. That's why our team has chosen to use either google forms or printed versions of the google forms that allow for easy data entry is that scouting usually needs to be specific to what your team goals are and what your robot is built to do depending on the game.

I'm beginning to see that now. Different teams look at different things in accordance with their team selection philosophy. Some look at scoring effectiveness and others look at more qualitative attributes to find the best match for their alliances. Team 1678 has a nice set of slides that discusses this important topic.
It's been quite an education so far.

[trumpthero786]

Here is what my team, Storm 2729 uses, as explained by our Lead Mentor! I hope this helps! It works really well for us and is very organized. It does require Android devices, which might be a turn off. But good luck on your scouting ventures!

Originally Posted by nlknauss

Up until last year, our team had completed all of our scouting on paper which as you know has its pros and cons. We wanted to develop a scouting app that would simple data acquisition and migration without the need to use networks, bluetooth, and pen drives. Brainstorming happened and we think we've made a simple, user friendly application for all your scouting needs using QR code data transfer! The app works without internet connection, USB drives, and bluetooth - all you need is an Android device with a camera.

This year’s apps (yes there’s two) allows you to save and analyze vital information about other teams such as points scored, tote stacks, container stacks, and noodles. Equipped with a lightning fast QR code scanner and a QR analyzer, this app will simplify scouting.

Here’s how the two app process works:

• The User App generates a QR code which contains match data about other teams
• The Master App scans the QR code
• The Master App sorts teams based on points, coopertitions, tote levels, and all other fields
• The analyzed information from the QR code is converted into a CSV file
• The CSV file can be opened in the app itself or in another spreadsheet application, such as Microsoft Excel

You can access it and check more screen shots out on our website and on the Google Play Store in the next few days. We’ll post a reply when it’s available.

There’s a lot of great scouting apps out there and we hope you’ll give it a try. Feel free to reply to this thread with questions, comments, and thoughts. Our students and team can’t wait to hear your feedback and hope that you enjoy their work!


Enjoy!

[BitTwiddler]

Originally Posted by trumpthero786

Here is what my team, Storm 2729 uses, as explained by our Lead Mentor! I hope this helps! It works really well for us and is very organized. It does require Android devices, which might be a turn off. But good luck on your scouting ventures!

Very cool! It actually meets our main requirements and seems simple to use.
I notice that the scouting data points are hard-coded into the user app. Am I correct in thinking that your programmers will configure it for the 2016 game shortly after kick-off? Is the source code open or closed?
What data analysis tool(s) do you guys use for your team pick lists?
The use of QR codes for data transfer is brilliant . No pesky cables to trip over, no on again/off again Bluetooth reliability issues. Just need to ensure that the devices are kept charged up for use.
Any plans for importing match schedules into the user app prior to the qualification matches in order to help the scouts select the teams to watch?

[trumpthero786]

Originally Posted by BitTwiddler

Very cool! It actually meets our main requirements and seems simple to use.
I notice that the scouting data points are hard-coded into the user app. Am I correct in thinking that your programmers will configure it for the 2016 game shortly after kick-off? Is the source code open or closed?
What data analysis tool(s) do you guys use for your team pick lists?
The use of QR codes for data transfer is brilliant . No pesky cables to trip over, no on again/off again Bluetooth reliability issues. Just need to ensure that the devices are kept charged up for use.
Any plans for importing match schedules into the user app prior to the qualification matches in order to help the scouts select the teams to watch?

I do believe that we have the intentions of configuring it to the 2016 game as soon after kick off as we can. Unfortunately the code for the app is not open YET. I'm not sure why, as we release all of our robot code. I can check on that with the programming team once we start meeting up again. As far as data analysis, it's not very complicated. It would be just like if you had all the data on paper, but instead it's nice and neat, organized and available. I'm not on the scouting team so I'm no expert in what they do. However I know that the hassle of tons of papers has been relieved from our team, and has simplified the picking of teams that we would want to work with us.

Your final question is very intriguing. It is a great idea that I can pass on to those in charge of the app and scouting in general. I can see them working that in using TBA's open source. We will definitely consider it.

If you PM or (even better) send an email to our Lead Mentor, I'm sure that he can find a way to get you guys the source code for the app. This is his profile page. There is a link for sending him an email.

I hope this helped! I can gladly answer other questions if you have any!

[Citrus Dad]

One consideration that we discovered after implementing our tablet system: being able to push summarized data to smart phones helped our drive team in planning for match strategies. Keeping your data only for the draft and not having an effective way to get data to your drive team quickly are mistakes to avoid.

[Billfred]

4901 hasn't used any devices for scouting (yet...), but one thing I can recommend personally: Anker battery packs to keep them topped up. I bought an Astro E4 before my trip to IRI this year, and made it from arrival Friday to on the train home Sunday morning without having to plug it into a wall--and my iPhone was never in danger of going dead despite using it a lot for work and despite the notoriously bad reception in Lawrence North that makes the phone use more juice to connect. They have also nailed down talking to the phone for the fastest charge it will take, which lets you top up quickly. I paid $30 for mine, but obviously a team wanting to charge a fleet of them might go for something bigger still. (The new PowerCore 20100 trumps my 13000 mAh for 20000 for $10 more, for example, or the three-port Astro E7 has 26800 for $70.)

I'm also a fan of their PowerPort line if you have access to wall power or wanted to charge everything up overnight in the pits or hotel. They've got four-, five-, six-, and ten-port versions that should give everyone the juice they require.

I'm nothing but a very satisfied customer--their stuff is well-built and a great bang for the buck.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by BitTwiddler

I'm beginning to see that now. Different teams look at different things in accordance with their team selection philosophy. Some look at scoring effectiveness and others look at more qualitative attributes to find the best match for their alliances. Team 1678 has a nice set of slides that discusses this important topic.
It's been quite an education so far.

Thanks for the compliment. If you can't find a link to our slides from last year, message me and I'll send them. I'll also get our website team to post links to the slides on our website www.citruscircuits.org (as well as for other workshops). We also hope to post the videos (finally), which includes a portion on the most important step in your draft process--having a heated argument between two members of the strategy team!

We will be giving an updated session on this plus strategy at our Capital City Classic workshops Oct 23-25 during breaks and after competition. (We may have a webcast set up as well.) For teams in Northern California, even if you're not competing, we urge you to come (plus we'll have a couple of food trucks.)

Note that we also have several whitepapers up on our tablet-based scouting system on Chief Delphi. We strongly believe that a team should build the scouting system because it's a great programming opportunity and not too overwhelming. It's a good place to use your extra programmers and recruit students who are already programming Android and iOS.

[BitTwiddler]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Thanks for the compliment. If you can't find a link to our slides from last year, message me and I'll send them. I'll also get our website team to post links to the slides on our website www.citruscircuits.org (as well as for other workshops).

Here's the link to the 1678 slides "Moneybots"
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3153