The Quest for Einstein

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Glenn,

I seem to remember 359 turning down the #1 seed in 2013... along with 3 other teams...

-Mike

We're bad luck. You wouldnt have made Einstein and you wouldnt have had a great 148 that year.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter

I've witnessed 8th seed alliances make it to regional finals. Anything could happen.

An 8th seeded alliance won the world championship in 2007.

[MooreteP]

The Maroons!

[Citrus Dad]

There are lots of great answers in this thread and I don't disagree with any of the longer ones. (We also can show counterexamples to the short numeric list.)

There is a great answer on the importance of mentors in another current thread that I'll link to. Your team doesn't need all of these, but having many of these elements is key.

I'll add two other elements that I think are key:

1) Play for the entire game, and think strategically. It's not having the best robot, the best driver, the best scouting system, or the most resources. It's coming up with an effective combination with strategic consideration. Mike Corsetto has a great presentation on this as well as Karthik. And this requires pre-thought; it doesn't start on Kickoff.

2) Constantly work on improving your robot. Look at pictures of 2013 robot at Central Valley vs at Champs. You won't recognize it. 1671 started improving their robot all through competition this year, and they were the shock pick of Champs.

3) Take advantage of the good luck you're handed. 2014 was the year we relied on the least amount of luck, but 610 having one really bad match poorly timed for 1114 made the difference for us. In 2013 we used other teams' unfamiliarity with us to our advantage to exploit a favorable schedule. This year we drew three teams that we were already very familiar with in our division and were able to put them together into an alliance.

I know that I'm not alone in making this offer as Mike, Karthik, Jared and Suri have posted here: please feel free to message me about any advice or resources we might be able to provide to make you a more successful team.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Mike Corsetto has a great presentation on this as well as Karthik.

Just to clarify, Karthik has a great presentation. I've learned a lot from watching his presentation for many years, and he has graciously allowed me to reference much of his presentation during my presentations surrounding these topics.

[Mitchell1714]

There are a few thought paths that could take you to Einstein from a strategy/strategic design standpoint.

1. Figure out what few tasks you need to do, then build the simplest robot that can accomplish these tasks. Every year there are some remarkably simple robots that accomplish so much. (ex. 1730 this year, 610 for 2013, 341 in 2012, ect.)

2. Don't set the goal to go to Einstein, set the goal to win all your regionals this year. The teams on Einstein are teams that dominated their regionals. This years world championship alliance won 6 regionals and was semifinalists twice.

3. Finnish the robot early. This is by far the most important thing to getting to Einstein. If you finish the robot early you will have more time to program autonomous modes, debug and get driver practice. The best robot 1714 made was our Rebound Rumble robot which was mechanically finished half way through week 4.

[cxcad]

Originally Posted by Mitchell1714

There are a few thought paths that could take you to Einstein from a strategy/strategic design standpoint.

1. Figure out what few tasks you need to do, then build the simplest robot that can accomplish these tasks. Every year there are some remarkably simple robots that accomplish so much. (ex. 1730 this year, 610 for 2013, 341 in 2012, ect.)

2. Don't set the goal to go to Einstein, set the goal to win all your regionals this year. The teams on Einstein are teams that dominated their regionals. This years world championship alliance won 6 regionals and was semifinalists twice.

3. Finnish the robot early. This is by far the most important thing to getting to Einstein. If you finish the robot early you will have more time to program autonomous modes, debug and get driver practice. The best robot 1714 made was our Rebound Rumble robot which was mechanically finished half way through week 4.

I disagree with number two. What it takes to win Einstein is different than what it takes to win a regional. Granted, robots that win Einstein do very well at regional and district events. For example, this year a robot without canburglars could win most regionals out there. Another example is 4334's 2012 robot. That design is not very effective at winning regionals, but it complements any powerhouse alliance/

[Darkseer54]

Originally Posted by cxcad

I disagree with number two. What it takes to win Einstein is different than what it takes to win a regional. Granted, robots that win Einstein do very well at regional and district events. For example, this year a robot without canburglars could win most regionals out there. Another example is 4334's 2012 robot. That design is not very effective at winning regionals, but it complements any powerhouse alliance/

To quote Jared from earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

A robot built for maximizing the chance of winning its Regional or District may be very different from one that is the perfect third robot on an Einstein alliance. Or not...depends on the game.

This year, a team that dominated a regional would be successful at worlds. In 2012, 4334's strategy proved that this didn't have to be true. Whether to build for Einstein or to try to blow out the competition at a regional while risking success at higher levels comes down to team beliefs, strategy, and the game.

[Citrus Dad]

One other suggestion: Pick a valuable task that may be sufficiently technically difficult, or another valuable task that may be overlooked, to be a focus of building your robot. I'll use our examples for the last 3 years: in 2013 we focused on ground pickup while most others used human loading. In 2014, we focused on midfield play including both ground pass and human midfield intake as well as truss shooting over goal shooting. In 2015, we focused on can grabbing. We gave up other functionalities as the trade offs. All of these fell out of strategic analysis of the game scoring opportunities.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

One other suggestion: Pick a valuable task that may be sufficiently technically difficult, or another valuable task that may be overlooked, to be a focus of building your robot. I'll use our examples for the last 3 years: in 2013 we focused on ground pickup while most others used human loading. In 2014, we focused on midfield play including both ground pass and human midfield intake as well as truss shooting over goal shooting. In 2015, we focused on can grabbing. We gave up other functionalities as the trade offs. All of these fell out of strategic analysis of the game scoring opportunities.

And I'll add one more related suggestion: work to make your alliance mates look good. Don't strive to be star of your alliance--strive to support the star. I call this the "Joe Montana" strategy. He did not have the strongest arm or fastest feet but he knew how to make Jerry Rice and Roger Craig perform at the highest level. As a result the 49ers had the greatest stretch of NFL dominance.

[logank013]

Now our team has never made it to Einstein and we are looking to do the same thing. I would love to make it to Einstein before I graduate. This season was by far the best year we had ranking 3rd in Archimedes. I know some of our success this year was by truly wanting to do good. We have made it to Worlds every year you had to qualify for it except for 2014. Part of that was with the whole (messed up in my opinion) regional system. Either way, it really gave us the "need" to do well this year. I feel like the want of your team has a lot to do with it. I think that our team has the resources and great mentors to be a #1 or 2 ranked team in a division. I feel like some of the members aren't into FIRST as much as I am, but there are definitely 7-10 kids on our team that want to do as much as possible to help the team. Time has a lot to do with it as well. We met last build season 2.5 hours each weeknight, 7 hours on Saturday, and 2-3 hours on Sunday. No days were "required", but we have a log and you're suppose to log a certain amount of time during the build and competition season. I personally wish we could meet for 4 hours each weeknight. Obviously, everything needs to be made around others personal lives. Most of our mentors aren't in their 20s so they have families and other things in their personal lives so we have to meet around their schedules. I'd personally like to do a simbotics like schedule. They meet 7 days a week and their mentors only come in on the weekends. I personally feel like a longer more detailed schedule is the next step for us to get better. Plus, I know some people that are involved in FIRST have been talking about maybe making a Cyber Blue class where they can meet at the shop each day during school. That would help us a lot actually. Like I said, we're in the same situation as you so I can't really tell you how to get to Einstein but above are my ideas to maybe get there.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

And I'll add one more related suggestion: work to make your alliance mates look good. Don't strive to be star of your alliance--strive to support the star. I call this the "Joe Montana" strategy. He did not have the strongest arm or fastest feet but he knew how to make Jerry Rice and Roger Craig perform at the highest level. As a result the 49ers had the greatest stretch of NFL dominance.

Not that many people here will care about this line of discussion, but I think that the "Trent Dilfer" strategy might be more appropriate. Joe Montana may not have had the same gifts that Dan Marino or John Elway had, but he was still going to be a top tier quarterback wherever he played. (Take his end of career stop in Kansas City for example.) Trent Dilfer on the other hand was a very average Quarterback, but still won a Super Bowl while being an efficient "game manager" for the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, while relying upon strong running game (Jamal Lewis & Priest Holmes), and one of the greatest defenses of all time.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Trent Dilfer on the other hand was a very average Quarterback, but still won a Super Bowl while being an efficient "game manager" for the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, while relying upon strong running game (Jamal Lewis & Priest Holmes), and one of the greatest defenses of all time.

In my mind, this was THE greatest defense ever.
I still recall the 5 game stretch where they scored NO offensive touchdowns. For any team that with those stats, they would most likely cellar dwellers for sure and the coaching staff fired.
The Ravens went 3-2 during that stretch.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'll just throw it out there, but I don't think any kid grew up trying to play like Trent Dilfer.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I'll just throw it out there, but I don't think any kid grew up trying to play like Trent Dilfer.

I mean, yes. But on that topic:

"After studying the youth camp landscape for the past decade, and now serving as the Head Coach of Nike Elite 11, former Super Bowl winning quarterback and current ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer has decided to go ALL IN on changing the way quarterbacks are developed for generations to come by establishing the first ever QBEpic"

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...p-nike-atlanta