New York Districts?

[rpaulsen]

This is something that my team has been struggling with this issue for 2 years now. We are a 3rd year team out of New Rochelle (3 miles north of the Bronx), and have been trying to expand to more events than the NYC Regional. Long Island is by far the best option for us because Hofstra is 45 minutes away, as opposed to Troy which is 3.5hr with no traffic, and is most commonly closer to 5 because downstate NY traffic is terrible always. To underscore how expensive it would be to go to Troy, which we registered and eventually dropped from last year, it is still not financially worth while to compete in the event and there is a NASA Regional challenge grant that we would most likely qualify for. Travel expense are just way to high, almost to the point of doubling the cost of registration.

Looking realistically at the geography of NYS teams, there are 3 or 4 teams in Westchester County sitting on top of the Long Island and City teams. There is then at least a 2.5 hour drive from the northern most Westchester team, to the next group of teams in the capital region. It would make no sense to build a district that tries to incorporate all NYS teams, our major population centers are just too spread out to the boarders. As previously suggested, a better idea is to forget the state boundaries and think regionally. Adding Northern New Jersey to a Long Island/NYC/Westchester district, and the Capital Region to Western Mass, would make far more sense than trying to shoe horn them together. And frankly, I can not speak to Western/Lake Region NY because in the 30 years I have lived in the state of NY I have never been west of the Catskills, and that is not an uncommon statement for those of us who live in the Metro region.

Anyway, we really need to move to the district model, or I fear teams will start dropping out of FRC based solely on economics. $9000 in registration fees to compete twice (or really $5000 to compete once) is difficult to sustain.

[Dominick Ferone]

Originally Posted by rpaulsen

as opposed to Troy which is 3.5hr with no traffic, and is most commonly closer to 5 because downstate NY traffic is terrible always. To underscore how expensive it would be to go to Troy, which we registered and eventually dropped from last year, it is still not financially worth while to compete in the event and there is a NASA Regional challenge grant that we would most likely qualify for. Travel expense are just way to high, almost to the point of doubling the cost of registration.

Having driven from long island to central NY, and having to pass Troy on the way, it doesn't take more then 2-3 hours to get there.

Hotel costs really depend on where you stay and how big the team is, as for travel you can do a bus, or if enough parents are going you could always carpool. For us going to Troy and Rochester the parents drove their kids and we had parents in charge of the kids who carpooled.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by rpaulsen

This is something that my team has been struggling with this issue for 2 years now. We are a 3rd year team out of New Rochelle (3 miles north of the Bronx), and have been trying to expand to more events than the NYC Regional. Long Island is by far the best option for us because Hofstra is 45 minutes away, as opposed to Troy which is 3.5hr with no traffic,

Troy is just about 2.5 hours from New Rochelle, not 3.5. It's closer to you than any of the 2nd regionals teams in the Albany region attend.

Hotel costs in the Albany region are pretty ordinary. You can easily find a cheap place to stay by the airport, roughly 15 minutes from the venue.

Really I think the best solution to all of this is to eliminate district borders altogether with a unified point system nationwide. Attend whatever districts you want. Pick a Championship to attend (or have it assigned based on location, whatever). Top X point earning teams assigned to each Championshp compete at that event, and worlds qualification arises from there. But that's not going to happen for reasons I'm not clear on, so we have to work around the existing district boundaries.

[page2067]

+1 on last post
and once NY goes districts - 1, 2 or 3(with or without OH PA WV etc)
The flexible district model, outlined by Chris, could be initiated with districts up and down the east coast.

Personally I would see NYC metro/ LI district, some move to NE, and Western with others - but teams on edges able to choose within constraints.

[Jessi Kaestle]

From what I understand, learning from MAR, I don't think it is a good idea to "cut" states when creating District borders. If the District does not encompass the whole state it makes getting state and board of education funding next to impossible.

In all serious, instead of arguing on here as to where the best location for the District Champs should be, please contact your local RD and let them know that not only does your team want to move to Districts but that you are willing to help with the initial planning stages. Moving to districts is a lot more complicated from the behind the scenes side of things than this thread has made it out to be.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Jessi Kaestle

Moving to districts is a lot more complicated from the behind the scenes side of things than this thread has made it out to be.

Emphasis on this. It takes a lot of work, but at the same time anyone with FIRST experience can be a part of making it happen.

[rpaulsen]

I've driven 87 a lot, and whether it is 2.5 or 3.5 hrs, it realistically doesn't make a difference in terms of the feasibility of participation. The issue isn't the drive, it is the overnights. Unless our budget changes in a dramatic way, I just can't see the rationale of spending so much money on hotels. My greater point is that it wouldn't make sense to deny the realities of the concentration of teams in the NY Metro area and try to force them into events way upstate. Looking down the list of events, there are close to 5 events closer to Troy than the city, that are part of either the NE District or Western NY, and 4 District events in Northern Jersey and Connecticut that are closer to NYC than Albany. Make a Tri-State District that includes New Jersey from New Brunswick and north and east of Parsippany, Long Island, NYC, Westcherster/ Rockland/Putnam, and CT south of Danbury and west of New Haven.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by rpaulsen

I've driven 87 a lot, and whether it is 2.5 or 3.5 hrs, it realistically doesn't make a difference in terms of the feasibility of participation. The issue isn't the drive, it is the overnights. Unless our budget changes in a dramatic way, I just can't see the rationale of spending so much money on hotels. My greater point is that it wouldn't make sense to deny the realities of the concentration of teams in the NY Metro area and try to force them into events way upstate. Looking down the list of events, there are close to 5 events closer to Troy than the city, that are part of either the NE District or Western NY, and 4 District events in Northern Jersey and Connecticut that are closer to NYC than Albany. Make a Tri-State District that includes New Jersey from New Brunswick and north and east of Parsippany, Long Island, NYC, Westcherster/ Rockland/Putnam, and CT south of Danbury and west of New Haven.

The proposal being discussed doesn't have downstate teams coming upstate unless they really want to for some reason.

A NY district would have a whole bunch of district events on Long Island and only 3-4 events upstate.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

The proposal being discussed doesn't have downstate teams coming upstate unless they really want to for some reason.

A NY district would have a whole bunch of district events on Long Island and only 3-4 events upstate.

Much of the contention in the thread has been in regards to the location of the DCMP (and whether its viable to have a DCMP outside of the NYC area or not).

[kindrisana]

I have a question which is related to the NY Tech Valley Regional event and not the conversation about districts. NASA for 2016 is offering the Regional Challenge Grant for that Regional competition. I was looking into the grant requirements and found two conflicting pieces of information. I emailed the NASA grant contact last week, and the regional director of FRC asking for clarification on the matter and have not heard back from either. With the deadline quickly approaching, I thought I'd reach out to the community to find out if anyone else had any additional information or advice. Here's what I observed:

When following the link to the NASA Grants from the FRC Blast sent out to FRC Teams on Sept 11th, 2015, the following is read:



---------------------------
http://frc-grants.arc.nasa.gov/rcs/directions.php
Definitions:
[...]
Veteran - A Veteran Team is any team registered with FIRST that had their rookie year during the 2014 FRC competition season (the 2014 competition season refers to the season that began in January 2014) or earlier OR was a Rookie Team in 2015 and not funded by NASA.
[...]
For the competition season, Regional Challenge Grants will be available to veteran teams for the following events:

NY Tech Valley Regional (Troy, NY) up to 10 veteran grants
[...]
-------------------------------

Our team has created a NASA login (to see the page I think you need to also) and began looking at the grant application, and the grant application reads the following:

-------------------------------
https://frc-grants.arc.nasa.gov/rcs/app/application.php
Types Of Sponsorship:
[...]
Regional Challenge Grants:
Regional Challenge Grants will be available to Rookie Teams and Second-Year Teams for the following events: up to 10 veteran grants
NY Tech Valley Regional (Troy, NY)
[...]
--------------------------------


These pieces of information are not clear to me. Who may apply for a Regional Challenge Grant? A Rookie Team, a Second-Year Team, or a Veteran team?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

[Dominick Ferone]

Originally Posted by kindrisana

I have a question which is related to the NY Tech Valley Regional event and not the conversation about districts. NASA for 2016 is offering the Regional Challenge Grant for that Regional competition. I was looking into the grant requirements and found two conflicting pieces of information. I emailed the NASA grant contact last week, and the regional director of FRC asking for clarification on the matter and have not heard back from either. With the deadline quickly approaching, I thought I'd reach out to the community to find out if anyone else had any additional information or advice. Here's what I observed:

When following the link to the NASA Grants from the FRC Blast sent out to FRC Teams on Sept 11th, 2015, the following is read:



---------------------------
http://frc-grants.arc.nasa.gov/rcs/directions.php
Definitions:
[...]
Veteran - A Veteran Team is any team registered with FIRST that had their rookie year during the 2014 FRC competition season (the 2014 competition season refers to the season that began in January 2014) or earlier OR was a Rookie Team in 2015 and not funded by NASA.
[...]
For the competition season, Regional Challenge Grants will be available to veteran teams for the following events:

NY Tech Valley Regional (Troy, NY) up to 10 veteran grants
[...]
-------------------------------

Our team has created a NASA login (to see the page I think you need to also) and began looking at the grant application, and the grant application reads the following:

-------------------------------
https://frc-grants.arc.nasa.gov/rcs/app/application.php
Types Of Sponsorship:
[...]
Regional Challenge Grants:
Regional Challenge Grants will be available to Rookie Teams and Second-Year Teams for the following events: up to 10 veteran grants
NY Tech Valley Regional (Troy, NY)
[...]
--------------------------------


These pieces of information are not clear to me. Who may apply for a Regional Challenge Grant? A Rookie Team, a Second-Year Team, or a Veteran team?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

It is saying that Veteran teams aka any team who has competed for this year and doesn't receive the Nasa Rookie Grant (which is a two year grant) can apply.
If you are a rookie you can apply for a separate Nasa grant that is intended for rookies and helps them out for two years.

[Kevin Leonard]

So the idea of New York Districts was once again brought up, and if I recall when I left this thread last, it was a jumbled heap of people arguing over petty things that don't particularly matter when it comes to making NY transition to districts.

There are so many teams that would benefit enormously from the transition to district events. Some great Capital Region teams I can think of that can only afford one event are 5236 and 4203, who are both awesome year-on-year, but only ever attend one regional. These teams would benefit enormously from districts.

Additionally, the majority of the teams that attend the New York City Regional only get to attend one event. With districts, those teams would now get two events, and be more likely to qualify for higher levels of play.

Almost every team in New York would be positively affected, except for perhaps 229 and 2053, who would likely still have to travel quite a bit for both of their events, and they often go out-of-state as it is right now to attend events.

I'm willing to hear counterarguments either in this thread or even in person this weekend at the Finger Lakes Regional, but I really can't see any good reason not to make the switch as soon as possible.

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

So the idea of New York Districts was once again brought up, and if I recall when I left this thread last, it was a jumbled heap of people arguing over petty things that don't particularly matter when it comes to making NY transition to districts.

There are so many teams that would benefit enormously from the transition to district events. Some great Capital Region teams I can think of that can only afford one event are 5236 and 4203, who are both awesome year-on-year, but only ever attend one regional. These teams would benefit enormously from districts.

Additionally, the majority of the teams that attend the New York City Regional only get to attend one event. With districts, those teams would now get two events, and be more likely to qualify for higher levels of play.

Almost every team in New York would be positively affected, except for perhaps 229 and 2053, who would likely still have to travel quite a bit for both of their events, and they often go out-of-state as it is right now to attend events.

I'm willing to hear counterarguments either in this thread or even in person this weekend at the Finger Lakes Regional, but I really can't see any good reason not to make the switch as soon as possible.

Spot on post! I think NY is going to run into a similar challenge that we here in West Virginia and teams in South Carolina is dealing with. You will soon be surrounded on all sides by districts, and your regional play options get further and further away. When Ontario and PA/OH/WV go into districts, where is your closest out of state regional? You are pushed pretty far away.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

Almost every team in New York would be positively affected, except for perhaps 229 and 2053, who would likely still have to travel quite a bit for both of their events, and they often go out-of-state as it is right now to attend events.

229 wants districts as much as anybody. We have to travel no matter what and being guaranteed two events in state would be amazing.

[FlamingSpork]

I have made a map of the locations of the teams that attended/will be attending New York's two "upstate" regionals, FLR and Tech Valley.
https://batchgeo.com/map/821f21483e1...d991dcdc725113

The map appears to show that most of the teams attending are located in the Albany and Rochester areas, suggesting that Syracuse would actually be a central location for DCMP if Upstate were its own district.

Of course, I know nothing about the challenges of regional/district organization. I merely wanted to lend some data to the discussion.