Team CMP Assignment 2017

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Agreed. If a "random" assignment is to be performed, it should be following qualification, not prior to competition. This would also allow team preference to be taken into account.
Strawman: At each cycle of qualification (e.g. weeks of regionals), the teams which qualify are given 24 hours to express a preference for one venue or the other. Those who do not express a preference are randomly assigned to keep the two events the same size. If too many teams express one or the other, all "no preference" teams go to the short event and teams will be randomly selected from those who selected the long event to go to the other.

This could create its own problems, though, since some weeks are likely to be biased towards one location or another depending on the location of the week's events (i.e. Week 6 would be very Detroit-heavy due to MICMP being that week). You'd have to take that into account when assigning the 'no preference' teams.

I like the overall idea, since it avoids dividing FRC into two mostly mutually exclusive parts (as a geographic split likely would), but I agree with others that there would be some logistical challenges to overcome. That being said, I think this is worth looking into.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen

I like the overall idea, since it avoids dividing FRC into two mostly mutually exclusive parts (as a geographic split likely would), but I agree with others that there would be some logistical challenges to overcome. That being said, I think this is worth looking into.

Jacob... I thought "what a great idea" when I first read the OP post... and wholeheartedly agree it should be further pursued.

Too bad they couldn't keep the 2017 venues model of St. Louis/Houston in place because on the face of it, travel-wise, I believe it would be very doable for the vast majority of teams to be randomly assigned to either St. Louis or Houston.

Dang... what could've been...

--Michael Blake

[Basel A]

Here's a proposal I've developed since hearing about the CMP Split. First, there is a reasonable geographic split (yes, this requires re-tuning each year). Then, set up a system for teams to trade slots.

Once a team qualifies for a championship, they are placed in their geographic championship. Online, they can sign up to switch in one of two ways:
1. They are willing to trade with anyone, and the system automatically matches up teams (randomly?). If you're currently in the high-demand CMP, you'll get to trade immediately. If you're in the low-demand CMP, you have to wait with no guarantee of getting in.
2. They are willing to trade, but want to pick with whom. This allows teams who are relatively sure they'll qualify to work out in advance a way to switch. So before the season, 624, a team who would geographically go to Houston, could make a deal with 33, a team who'd be in Detroit, for them to switch.

Thereby no one is forced to go to an extremely inconvenient Championship, and teams that would like to go to the other CMP are reasonably likely to be able to switch. Further, it means there's no further logistics needed on FIRST's part to ensure that the Championships are balanced.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

...St. Louis/Houston in place because on the face of it, travel-wise, I believe it would be very doable for the vast majority of teams to be randomly assigned to either St. Louis or Houston.

Upon further review it appears burdensome to teams east and north of Virginia and the Canadian teams to be assigned to travel to Houston. Also northern California, Oregon, Washington and others.

TOUGH problem to fix...

--Michael Blake

[Michael Blake]

WOW... never realized Seattle-area teams have a 29 hour bus drive even to St. Louis.

That's a crazy amount of time on a bus that you do TWICE within 6 days!

--Michael Blake

[mwmac]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

WOW... never realized Seattle-area teams have a 29 hour bus drive even to St. Louis.

That's a crazy amount of time on a bus that you do TWICE within 6 days!

--Michael Blake

That is one of the reasons for this proposal, i.e. to spread the travel burden.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by mwmac

That is one of the reasons for this proposal, i.e. to spread the travel burden.

AGREED it would do that.

AND I really like this concept... ;-)

But, for my team the reality is if we qualified for CHAMPS and were assigned Detroit we wouldn't be able to go for the reasons I previously posted.

I've got to believe the same constraints we have on travel caps applies to a lot of other teams.

--Michael Blake

[JB987]

Doesn't your school district allow your team to fly (allowing you to save classtime in your case). So very many of the rest of us are forced to fly regardless (just check out the terminals at the St Louis Wednesday or Sunday of Champs). Many times a bus can cost a team more overall than airfare or if airfare costs more it's just a matter of some additional fundraising on kid's part to manage the cost increase. Many of the rest of us will never benefit from an in-state or nearby Champs bus drive trip opportunity. That said, if your district doesn't allow for alternative air travel, it would be a shame to see you miss out should you face the travel inequity so many of us will continue to face in the coming years. Many teams (like us) don't take the whole team to Champs in large part because of the cost burden on kids and team...

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JB987

Doesn't your school district allow your team to fly (allowing you to save classtime in your case). So very many of the rest of us are forced to fly regardless (just check out the terminals at the St Louis Wednesday or Sunday of Champs). Many times a bus can cost a team more overall than airfare or if airfare costs more it's just a matter of some additional fundraising on kid's part to manage the cost increase. Many of the rest of us will never benefit from an in-state or nearby Champs bus drive trip opportunity. That said, if your district doesn't allow for alternative air travel, it would be a shame to see you miss out should you face the travel inequity so many of us will continue to face in the coming years. Many teams (like us) don't take the whole team to Champs in large part because of the cost burden on kids and team...

Joe... we could fly.

In fact, _ I FLY_ because I'm an adult with some money in my checking account... you won't catch me on a charter bus (did it _once_ at 2011 CHAMPS)... ;-)

But for the rest of the team taking the bus versus flying it is a case of higher cost, substantially higher, than taking a charter bus with an all-inclusive cost of $10,000.00 because we bring 35-45 people--EVERYBODY involved with the team goes.

--Michael Blake

[mwmac]

Originally Posted by JB987

Doesn't your school district allow your team to fly (allowing you to save classtime in your case). So very many of the rest of us are forced to fly regardless (just check out the terminals at the St Louis Wednesday or Sunday of Champs). Many times a bus can cost a team more overall than airfare or if airfare costs more it's just a matter of some additional fundraising on kid's part to manage the cost increase. Many of the rest of us will never benefit from an in-state or nearby Champs bus drive trip opportunity. That said, if your district doesn't allow for alternative air travel, it would be a shame to see you miss out should you face the travel inequity so many of us will continue to face in the coming years. Many teams (like us) don't take the whole team to Champs in large part because of the cost burden on kids and team...

+1, QFT

[Dunngeon]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

WOW... never realized Seattle-area teams have a 29 hour bus drive even to St. Louis.

That's a crazy amount of time on a bus that you do TWICE within 6 days!

--Michael Blake

No one drives that distance, all teams from PNW (and I'd hazard west coast) fly.

Usually there are a few convoys with pit stuff ect. but no students.

Buses aren't the only option

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Dunngeon

No one drives that distance, all teams from PNW (and I'd hazard west coast) fly.

Ryan... AMAZING they can afford all those airplane tickets for students, mentors, school administration, team-parents... and then transportation (local bus?) around hotels and meals... AND they can get someone to trailer their equipment to St. Louis and back.

They must be spending per team in the $15,000.00-$20,000.00 range just for transportation if they're taking their entire teams to CHAMPS!

--Michael Blake

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

Ryan... AMAZING they can afford all those airplane tickets for students, mentors, school administration, team-parents... and then transportation (local bus?) around hotels and meals... AND they can get someone to trailer their equipment to St. Louis and back.

They must be spending per team in the $15,000.00-$20,000.00 range just for transportation if they're taking their entire teams to CHAMPS!

--Michael Blake

Yep - I don't know of anyone who drove their entire team from the PNW to St. Louis this year. There were several teams who drove trailers and rented out space to other teams (our forklift didn't fit in our crate, so we sent it with 1510), but everyone else flew.

It ain't cheap goin' to champs from the PNW!