Engineering "Educator" Degree Programs

[Lil' Lavery]

Personally, I'd be more interested in an after-hours/online certificate program.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Personally, I'd be more interested in an after-hours/online certificate program.

If someone has a degree and experience then there is a market out there for that, without question. That would be addressed with a MAT, Masters of Arts in Teaching, or some other initial certification pathway.

I working to justify creating a BS degree program. It closes a gap, by allowing STEM oriented high school students to take a direct engineering / education route to a BS and the classroom. It falls well short of an ABET accredited engineering degree.

See the chart here

[dtengineering]

Um... actually, I do that for a living.

Teach teachers to teach technology education, that is. After 13 years of teaching high school 'shop' I'm teaching in the same program I graduated from 20 years ago... and we've been doing it in BC for the past fifty years.

To be fair, the program isn't specifically "engineering". We cover Auto Mechanics, Woodwork, Metalwork, Drafting, Electronics, and Material Science. Students spend about 30 hours each week for four semesters learning "hands on" in a shop environment. (Okay, some of my lectures aren't always as 'hands on' as I'd like.)

Students are responsible for getting their "first year" university credits before enrolling in the program, spend two years with us at BCIT in the shops, and then spend 12 months at UBC to complete their B.Ed degree. It is a five year B.Ed degree that qualifies them to teach in BC, and by extension most other provinces in Canada (and likely states in the USA, although I haven't followed that through in detail as we don't currently graduate enough students to meet domestic demand, let alone worrying about work permits and the like) I do know, however, that some of our grads have had a good time finding work in Australia....

We have a great group of students with backgrounds in the trades, technologies, and even the occasional engineer entering the program.

It is kind of a unique program, but our graduates make up 100% of the current and past FRC team lead mentors from BC (albeit a small sample set) and about 80% of VEX teachers in BC.

Not bad for only taking 22 students a year!

So glad to hear that other people are looking at the same thing!

Jason

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by ebarker

I working to justify creating a BS degree program. It closes a gap, by allowing STEM oriented high school students to take a direct engineering / education route to a BS and the classroom. It falls well short of an ABET accredited engineering degree.

I'm going to look at this from a purely economic POV for a moment: Is there enough demand for a course like this? How many new "shop" teachers does Georgia need every year? Does it make economic sense for a school to create a new degree path?

I think someone said, if there was enough demand there would be a MAT path for this certification. That would lead me to ask why isn't there one already? It is possible the demand just isn't there? I think you are driving this from the wrong end of the pipe. Increase demand, then work of supply.

[ebarker]

Yes I am having to create an economic ROI analysis or something to that effect.

There is a large demand. People have not been able to articulate what it should look like until recently.

The degree isn't shop class, but an "integrative stem" teaching degree. Engineering is a highly stem integrated discipline.

Front page article in this weeks NSTA journal was about this very topic.

The problem schools are having is there are a lot of courses on the books that can't be taught, so they don't start the class, and in turn there is no teacher demand. Chicken & Egg.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by ebarker

The degree isn't shop class, but an "integrative stem" teaching degree. Engineering is a highly stem integrated discipline.

Talk to a typical administrator and talk about integrative STEM and I bet most of them will reply, "oh, you mean shop/CTE right?"

But I agree there needs to be a better job of training folks to teach engineering type skills. I have seen some really bad engineering classes.

[Chief Hedgehog]

I pray that most FRC teams are gearing their teams for students interested in 'shop classes'.

The skills gap in the U.S. is getting out of hand. And for teams to be overlooking these students is a disservice to the respective teams and the students that they could reach.

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE!

In Minnesota alone, we had 40 openings for Tech Ed/Engineering Ed in 2015 - and St. Cloud State University (the only school in MN offering this degree) graduated a total of two.

For any student involved in FRC that wants to continue in this field and has a desire to inspire, this is a great career!

[ebarker]

[quote=Chief Hedgehog;1498405]And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE!

In Minnesota alone, we had 40 openings for Tech Ed/Engineering Ed in 2015 - and St. Cloud State University (the only school in MN offering this degree) graduated a total of two.

Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

[weberr]

I love this thread!

I feel the hard issue is going to be this. Salary.

I came to education in 2005 from industry where I was a cutting tool designer/manufacturer for over 15 years. When the auto industry tanked here in Michigan, jobs were scarce and I was lucky to find one in Education; actually it found me.

I had to go back to school for 83 credit hours and take a huge pay cut to be in education. I mean a pay cut of over half of that in industry, plus pay for 83 credit hours to get my certification.

Ten years later, I am happy where I am at. I am 48, and enjoy my summers off. I pick up side work to cover the still lower than industry salary. No problems. But if I was a much younger lad and entering in to education, I would have to think very hard as I could get a much better compensation if I went to industry instead.

In plain terms, then shortage is this. Good, qualified, knowledgeable people can earn much more in industry than over education. Unless you are willing to take the sacrifice, industry is the better choice if you are raising a family.

[nlknauss]

Mentoring through FIRST is what brought me in to teaching as career. I am a Technology Ed teacher who teaches Electronics and Robotics courses at my high school. My inner FIRST student has a lot of fun with my job!

There are colleges and universities who offer Tech Ed, Pre-engineering, and other STEM related education degrees but it really seems to depend on what the state needs for certification to fully run a program. Liability is a big part technology and engineering education because of the use of powered equipment and student safety, this is normally set by the state and/or local school board. I've also noticed that the states with schools that offer technology, engineering, and industrial arts teacher degrees tend to also see the importance of these areas of study over other states. They usually have state standards to support the need, NJ has 8.2.

The hardest part is recruitment, no doubt. Teaching is a calling for many, but some don't realize it right away.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by weberr

In plain terms, then shortage is this. Good, qualified, knowledgeable people can earn much more in industry than over education. Unless you are willing to take the sacrifice, industry is the better choice if you are raising a family.

Exactly. This is same issue we have in the sciences. I think about it constantly. I could get a "normal" job and greatly increase me salary. Oh, to take a week off whenever I want to!

[Chief Hedgehog]

[quote=ebarker;1498437]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.




Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

I wish I could. However, I may be able to do you even better. I can give you the direct contact to Saint Cloud State University's program director for the Technology/Enginneering Education program. PM me and I will send you his contact info.

Next Spring (starting in March) just google 'edpost' or go to
http://www1.stcloudstate.edu/joblist...st/default.asp
and you will see all of the positions available. It is absolutely ridiculous how many will be there.

If you want to make a solid living and coach an FRC team, Minnesota is the place to be!

[Chief Hedgehog]

[quote=ebarker;1498437]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.




Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

And as for 'Shop Teachers' - only my father-in-law calls me that when he wants to win an argument. And then I point to all the crap I have fixed for him and I win...

[dtengineering]

I have to comment on the "don't call them shop teachers" suggestion... I don't know what the history of teaching 'shop' is in every jurisdiction, but in BC I'm proud to be known as a shop teacher. In fact, I'm a second-generation shop teacher and I consider it a compliment to be grouped in with some of the most progressive, entrepreneurial, forward-thinking educators in the province.

Do we teach engineering, robotics, animation, 3D printing and such in shop classes? Yep. Shop teachers have been on the cutting edge of technology in BC from transistors, through computers, CAD, CNC... you name it and if it is a cool, new technology that involves hands-on learning you'll find it in the shop.

Officially, of course, we've never been called "shop teachers". It was "manual training", then "industrial education" and now "technology education"... put whatever buzzwords you want on the paperwork. Administrators and funding agencies are suckers for that stuff. But if someone is teaching real-world skills in a hands-on way in a shop, then they are teaching shop. And should be darn proud of it, too.

Jason

* Alternative definition... if there is a chance that someone is going to lose a finger if they don't follow instructions and use their brain, well, that's another sign that you might be teaching shop, too.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

put whatever buzzwords you want on the paperwork. Administrators and funding agencies are suckers for that stuff. But if someone is teaching real-world skills in a hands-on way in a shop, then they are teaching shop. And should be darn proud of it, too.

I don't disagree at all. All I was trying to get to is addressing the funding agency people issues. I didn't do a good job of that.

Originally Posted by dtengineering

In fact, I'm a second-generation shop teacher and I consider it a compliment to be grouped in with some of the most progressive, entrepreneurial, forward-thinking educators in the province.

Well there you go. You are in an advanced place, we are still in in the past here, so we have to go full circle here, we still have to "to go to the future" to "get back to the past". hmmm.... sounds like a movie. where's my flux capacitor ?