Can someone in the Irving TX area "draft" this young man?

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Ahmed was wrongly detained.
Ahmed is a student interested in engineering.
Ahmed is of a race that suffers institutional and cultural prejudices against it.

Those are the facts that matter. That's enough to justify the use of Ahmed as a symbol, and Ahmed accepts that.

Wrong - a key fact is missing. Was Ahmed wrongly detained BECAUSE of his race and/or culture? This is the key unknown factoid. By choosing Ahmed you are focusing public ire on persons and groups that may or may not deserve it. Also if there is something negative we do not know one risks damaging the cause and Ahmed. People will tune this kind of thing out - they already are. How many cause celebres have there been lately that turned out to be something different? Answer - too many.

Why not pick another symbol? There are plenty of documented possibilities.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by wireties

Wrong - a key fact is missing. Was Ahmed wrongly detained BECAUSE of his race and/or culture? This is the key unknown factoid. By choosing Ahmed you are focusing public ire on persons and groups that may or may not deserve it. Also if there is something negative we do not know one risks damaging the cause and Ahmed. People will tune this kind of thing out - they already are. How many cause celebres have there been lately that turned out to be something different? Answer - too many.

Why not pick another symbol? There are plenty of documented possibilities.

At this point, race has nothing to did with our side of the argument. No matter what race he is, it was all on the teacher and admin for thinking it was a hoax bomb. As media reports, Ahmed never stated it was a bomb at all. He called it his clock (or "invention" (which we all know is not)) from the get go. Let's throw out the race card. Assuming the was no racial prejudice, it still leaves that he was wrongly detained for what he called a clock from the start. That is the real issue. I love police. They were just doing their job when the school contacted them. This issue, in my humble opinion, lies on why the teacher and admin believed it to be a hoax bomb to begin with. Even without knowledge of wiring, it should be obvious by the red display it is the insides of a clock. The whole why the teacher and admin thought it was a hoax bomb thing is something I'll probably never understand.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by wireties

Wrong - a key fact is missing. Was Ahmed wrongly detained BECAUSE of his race and/or culture? This is the key unknown factoid. By choosing Ahmed you are focusing public ire on persons and groups that may or may not deserve it. Also if there is something negative we do not know one risks damaging the cause and Ahmed. People will tune this kind of thing out - they already are. How many cause celebres have there been lately that turned out to be something different? Answer - too many.

Why not pick another symbol? There are plenty of documented possibilities.

You don't have to be persecuted for your race to be held as a example of a American Muslim student interested in science and technology.

Symbols aren't something people "deserve." Symbols come from an opportunity. This is an opportunity to turn an awful event that happened into Ahmed into something positive for the American Muslim community, and the country in general. There is the right mix of public attention, social media buzz, and general media attention to allow for his moment to be used to influence things positively.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You don't have to be persecuted for your race to be held as a example of a American Muslim student interested in science and technology.

Symbols aren't something people "deserve." Symbols come from an opportunity. This is an opportunity to turn an awful event that happened into Ahmed into something positive for the American Muslim community, and the country in general. There is the right mix of public attention, social media buzz, and general media attention to allow for his moment to be used to influence things positively.

"Deserve" applies to the persons, organizations and townships you were accusing of racial injustice, not the "symbol". Your last several posts have not mentioned racial injustice. So if we are, for some reason, in need of a symbol to advocate for technology savvy teenage American Muslims then Ahmed works.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by logank013

At this point, race has nothing to did with our side of the argument. No matter what race he is, it was all on the teacher and admin for thinking it was a hoax bomb.

It was a clock! We know that. Ahmed's engineering teacher knew it was a clock. But should we expect the same of an English teacher? As I've stated for several times, it does not matter what Ahmed thought or what he claimed to any party involved. To be a hoax under Texas law the device need only "cause concern to an authority figure". The teacher and school administration had enough doubt to pass the decision to the police who decided it was not a hoax and that Ahmed was harmless. We do not know if anyone involved stated under oath they thought the device was an intentional hoax. They were confused and/or passing the buck and/or following zero tolerance policies. We do not know why the police detained Ahmed. Some sort of profiling could be a factor but we do not know that. Not yet.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by wireties

Wrong - a key fact is missing. Was Ahmed wrongly detained BECAUSE of his race and/or culture?

If you're waiting for the police department to release a statement stating that they are racist and discriminate against brown people, I think you'll be waiting a very long time. Otherwise, I'm not sure what additional evidence you're looking for. There's every indication that the town as a whole is very Islamophobic and the treatment Ahmed receiving was far above and beyond what is reasonable or what they police "had to do" for "standard operating procedures." That's enough for me, that's enough for almost everybody in this thread, and that's enough for the White House, Facebook, Microsoft, etc., etc., etc.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by wireties

"Deserve" applies to the persons, organizations and townships you were accusing of racial injustice, not the "symbol". Your last several posts have not mentioned racial injustice. So if we are, for some reason, in need of a symbol to advocate for technology savvy teenage American Muslims then Ahmed works.

We have the need to advocate for a technology savvy teenage American Muslim because of racial injustice.

We're never going to have definitive proof either way regarding the precise motivations of the individuals who detained Ahmed. That doesn't mean we can't take positive action. Nobody here is arguing those individuals be held accountable for those actions. What we're doing instead is taking a negative event and attempting to use it for positive gains.

Originally Posted by wireties

It was a clock! We know that. Ahmed's engineering teacher knew it was a clock. But should we expect the same of an English teacher? As I've stated for several times, it does not matter what Ahmed thought or what he claimed to any party involved. To be a hoax under Texas law the device need only "cause concern to an authority figure". The teacher and school administration had enough doubt to pass the decision to the police who decided it was not a hoax and that Ahmed was harmless. We do not know if anyone involved stated under oath they thought the device was an intentional hoax. They were confused and/or passing the buck and/or following zero tolerance policies. We do not know why the police detained Ahmed. Some sort of profiling could be a factor but we do not know that. Not yet.

Once again, if anyone truly feared it was a bomb or they blindly followed a "zero tolerance" policy that was in place, they would have evacuated the school and called the bomb squad.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Once again, if anyone truly feared it was a bomb or they blindly followed a "zero tolerance" policy that was in place, they would have evacuated the school and called the bomb squad.

Technically, the school employees thought it was a "hoax bomb", not a real bomb. It is still a criminal act to bring a hoax bomb to a school but they wouldn't have evacuated. Why they thought it was a hoax bomb is the big unknown:

Originally Posted by logank013

The whole "why the teacher and admin thought it was a hoax bomb" thing is something I'll probably never understand.

It may well have been, and it is my opinion that it was, racist tendencies that made them think Ahmed was more likely to have brought in a fake bomb than he was to have brought in a clock. This is likely something that we will never know for certain via any kind of statement or facts.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Basel A

If you're waiting for the police department to release a statement stating that they are racist and discriminate against brown people, I think you'll be waiting a very long time.

Ahmed's father is a lawyer. He'll sue. Everything will come out during discovery. Otherwise there is no evidence this is racially motivated - none.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Basel A

There's every indication that the town as a whole is very Islamophobic ...

Really, and your evidence is what? That the mayor is a goofball? That they passed a law to make sure Sharia did not supplant constitutional law? (and before you ask why they did it there was a sharia court operating in the town)

Why would you make such a unwise generalization?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by wireties

Really, and your evidence is what? That the mayor is a goofball? That they passed a law to make sure Sharia did not supplant constitutional law? (and before you ask why they did it there was a sharia court operating in the town)

Why would you make such a unwise generalization?

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-first-shari/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/shariatexas.asp

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-first-shari/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/shariatexas.asp

I don't really have an opinion and do not know much about sharia. But this seems political, not cultural. We can't have two parallel systems of justice especially if one is not known for promoting the rights of women.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-first-shari/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/shariatexas.asp

So, the mayor and city council of a town passing a resolution to support a bill in the Texas Legislature that is within the legislature's authority (cf. Texas Constitution re: Courts) makes the town Islamophobic? I am confused.

By the way, Irving is a nice town. The Dallas Regional is held there. Office Space was shot there. Wonderful people that I've had the pleasure to be around several times in the past years.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...s-first-shari/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/shariatexas.asp

Looks like Ontario and England might draw Lavery's ire also...

https://web.stanford.edu/group/sjir/pdf/Sharia_11.2.pdf

[Lil' Lavery]

Those articles weren't calling Irving Islamaphobic. They were disproving the false claim that there was a Sharia court in Irving.

Originally Posted by wireties

I don't really have an opinion and do not know much about sharia. But this seems political, not cultural. We can't have two parallel systems of justice especially if one is not known for promoting the rights of women.

It wasn't a "parallel justice system." It wasn't a Sharia Court. For all intents and purposes, it was a conflict mediator/arbitrator. There are similar services provided by Christian, Jewish, and non-religious groups.

And unless you're prepared to get into a PM debate regarding the treatment of women by other faiths, spare me your Islamaphobia regarding women's rights.