Engineering "Educator" Degree Programs

[ebarker]

[quote=Chief Hedgehog;1498405]And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE!

In Minnesota alone, we had 40 openings for Tech Ed/Engineering Ed in 2015 - and St. Cloud State University (the only school in MN offering this degree) graduated a total of two.

Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

[weberr]

I love this thread!

I feel the hard issue is going to be this. Salary.

I came to education in 2005 from industry where I was a cutting tool designer/manufacturer for over 15 years. When the auto industry tanked here in Michigan, jobs were scarce and I was lucky to find one in Education; actually it found me.

I had to go back to school for 83 credit hours and take a huge pay cut to be in education. I mean a pay cut of over half of that in industry, plus pay for 83 credit hours to get my certification.

Ten years later, I am happy where I am at. I am 48, and enjoy my summers off. I pick up side work to cover the still lower than industry salary. No problems. But if I was a much younger lad and entering in to education, I would have to think very hard as I could get a much better compensation if I went to industry instead.

In plain terms, then shortage is this. Good, qualified, knowledgeable people can earn much more in industry than over education. Unless you are willing to take the sacrifice, industry is the better choice if you are raising a family.

[nlknauss]

Mentoring through FIRST is what brought me in to teaching as career. I am a Technology Ed teacher who teaches Electronics and Robotics courses at my high school. My inner FIRST student has a lot of fun with my job!

There are colleges and universities who offer Tech Ed, Pre-engineering, and other STEM related education degrees but it really seems to depend on what the state needs for certification to fully run a program. Liability is a big part technology and engineering education because of the use of powered equipment and student safety, this is normally set by the state and/or local school board. I've also noticed that the states with schools that offer technology, engineering, and industrial arts teacher degrees tend to also see the importance of these areas of study over other states. They usually have state standards to support the need, NJ has 8.2.

The hardest part is recruitment, no doubt. Teaching is a calling for many, but some don't realize it right away.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by weberr

In plain terms, then shortage is this. Good, qualified, knowledgeable people can earn much more in industry than over education. Unless you are willing to take the sacrifice, industry is the better choice if you are raising a family.

Exactly. This is same issue we have in the sciences. I think about it constantly. I could get a "normal" job and greatly increase me salary. Oh, to take a week off whenever I want to!

[Chief Hedgehog]

[quote=ebarker;1498437]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.




Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

I wish I could. However, I may be able to do you even better. I can give you the direct contact to Saint Cloud State University's program director for the Technology/Enginneering Education program. PM me and I will send you his contact info.

Next Spring (starting in March) just google 'edpost' or go to
http://www1.stcloudstate.edu/joblist...st/default.asp
and you will see all of the positions available. It is absolutely ridiculous how many will be there.

If you want to make a solid living and coach an FRC team, Minnesota is the place to be!

[Chief Hedgehog]

[quote=ebarker;1498437]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

And as for 'Shop teacher' - there is a MASSIVE SHORTAGE! /QUOTE]

totally agree - massive shortage, huge national problem. http://www.reshorenow.org/

free advice - don't call them shop teachers,,,, call them something like 'manufacturing technologist' teachers. or something like that. there is enormous support and demand for that.




Is there anyway I can get some supporting documentation for that ? Or some sort of citation ?

Thanks,
-eb

And as for 'Shop Teachers' - only my father-in-law calls me that when he wants to win an argument. And then I point to all the crap I have fixed for him and I win...

[dtengineering]

I have to comment on the "don't call them shop teachers" suggestion... I don't know what the history of teaching 'shop' is in every jurisdiction, but in BC I'm proud to be known as a shop teacher. In fact, I'm a second-generation shop teacher and I consider it a compliment to be grouped in with some of the most progressive, entrepreneurial, forward-thinking educators in the province.

Do we teach engineering, robotics, animation, 3D printing and such in shop classes? Yep. Shop teachers have been on the cutting edge of technology in BC from transistors, through computers, CAD, CNC... you name it and if it is a cool, new technology that involves hands-on learning you'll find it in the shop.

Officially, of course, we've never been called "shop teachers". It was "manual training", then "industrial education" and now "technology education"... put whatever buzzwords you want on the paperwork. Administrators and funding agencies are suckers for that stuff. But if someone is teaching real-world skills in a hands-on way in a shop, then they are teaching shop. And should be darn proud of it, too.

Jason

* Alternative definition... if there is a chance that someone is going to lose a finger if they don't follow instructions and use their brain, well, that's another sign that you might be teaching shop, too.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

put whatever buzzwords you want on the paperwork. Administrators and funding agencies are suckers for that stuff. But if someone is teaching real-world skills in a hands-on way in a shop, then they are teaching shop. And should be darn proud of it, too.

I don't disagree at all. All I was trying to get to is addressing the funding agency people issues. I didn't do a good job of that.

Originally Posted by dtengineering

In fact, I'm a second-generation shop teacher and I consider it a compliment to be grouped in with some of the most progressive, entrepreneurial, forward-thinking educators in the province.

Well there you go. You are in an advanced place, we are still in in the past here, so we have to go full circle here, we still have to "to go to the future" to "get back to the past". hmmm.... sounds like a movie. where's my flux capacitor ?

[jpetito]

Hi Ed--

A number of things come up with this:

Engineers are not necessarily what you need; someone well-versed in the trades and business who can teach basic skills, building a foundation of muscle-memory with materials and mechanisms and tools and equipment. Then this person can point the way to higher education in it, or in related fields.

Who wants to come out of industry, take a forty or fifty percent discount in pay, go after the teaching credential, and then shuffle through all the Common Core and NGSS BS we're made to do? There's this vision out there on the part of school site administrators to get some old retired engineers to come into the school system and teach these classes. Really? Put up with school site and school district politics, fight for funding, fight for a legitimate place on the schedule, fight for your class description to get legitimized by the state? Write the curriculum for your state, mostly from scratch?

Wrote a book on this whole issue: here's a free one to anyone who can see this message: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/448735 On checkout, put in this code to download it for free in any format: MF57X

See two chapters specifically: The Shop Teacher, and Accomplishment, about how FRC fills the skills gap for young people, and why so many business step up to fund it and give scholarships, and so many more volunteer to make it all work.

A blessing on your efforts!

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by jpetito

Engineers are not necessarily what you need; someone well-versed in the trades and business who can teach basic skills, building a foundation of muscle-memory with materials and mechanisms and tools and equipment. Then this person can point the way to higher education in it, or in related fields.

YHUP !!

That is a battle I've fought but I think we have than under control.

I think it was in 2010 the Office of Science & Technology Policy, The White House released a length document on education, wherein a group of ivory towered academics and esteemed business persons came up with the idea of "highly qualified", meaning you take a full engineer, and ask them to go to school for teaching credentials, take the pay cut, and voila, problem solved...... NOT That set off a lot of people marching in the wrong direction.

What is needed is the right balance of a lot of skills, and knowledge........ and so on..... And yes, this isn't an 'online' degree. I predict you will see a lot of people offering online 'STEM' certifications that are going to be useless.... but I digress.

Thank you for the book, I'll go read it now.

Ed