[FRC Blog] Pit Set-Up and Trophies

[Jon Stratis]

The big concern with this change and bag and tag is someone accidentally unbagging early, and then having to go through some visible process with the LRI so that everyone knows things are fair.

At past events (at least in MN), we've visited each pit after that team is finished loading in and out a nice big green or red sheet on the robot saying they could unbag or that there is a problem they need to resolve first (like taking the bag and tag sheet back to the hotel with them instead of leaving it with the robot as requested). It provides a nice, obvious reminder for teams when they actually get to the venue to do work, and as a system has worked quite nicely. It also reduces pain all around as most teams get checked off the night before, and we only have to worry about a couple of teams the morning of.

With this change, teams will be hanging out in their pit the night before. Sure, they'll set up... And then they'll want to walk around, talk to other teams, check out other robots. Do we try to regulate or stop that? It'll be just like the chaos that normally happens when pits open for work on the first day. If we use the same red and green sheets, someone will undoubtedly see green and snip the ziptie without thinking. If we wait until everyone leaves, then the volunteers have to stay longer to finish the job.

And most of our venues don't have room for a "robot jail". It's something we've used for our state event before, but that event is only 30 teams held in a venue that holds a 63 team regional earlier in the season, which gives us plenty of room.

[Rick]

It would be nice to know where the trophy cost savings are being applied. Other than that, happy to see logical decisions being made in FRC.

[Christopher149]

Personally speaking, just so long as we always get at least 1 trophy, I'm happy. (I mean, they do look pretty cool)

[EDesbiens]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

Personally speaking, just so long as we always get at least 1 trophy, I'm happy. (I mean, they do look pretty cool)

So true

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

Personally speaking, just so long as we always get at least 1 trophy, I'm happy. (I mean, they do look pretty cool)

As long as they aren't the district trophies from 2012...

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

As long as they aren't the district trophies from 2012...

I somewhat remember those. Almost glad we didn't win awards that year (though, we didn't win any 2004-2014 exclusive)

[IKE]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

As long as they aren't the district trophies from 2012...

They were pretty much these:
https://www.crownawards.com/StoreFro...x_Trophies.cat

But a lable instead of the "engraved" logo. They were really really cheap looking.

I like the look of the plaques from the link, and think those are a really neat idea.

[MattRain]

Originally Posted by marshall

The division winner trophies from last year are larger than the regional winner trophies.

Thought so.... Would be nice if they did that for the World Champions in FTC.

Originally Posted by IKE

They were pretty much these:
https://www.crownawards.com/StoreFro...x_Trophies.cat

But a lable instead of the "engraved" logo. They were really really cheap looking.

I like the look of the plaques from the link, and think those are a really neat idea.

At least those look better than the FTC Qualifier Trophies... The FTC Qualifier Trophies looks like a "little league" participation trophy....

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

The big concern with this change and bag and tag is someone accidentally unbagging early, and then having to go through some visible process with the LRI so that everyone knows things are fair.

At past events (at least in MN), we've visited each pit after that team is finished loading in and out a nice big green or red sheet on the robot saying they could un bag or that there is a problem they need to resolve first (like taking the bag and tag sheet back to the hotel with them instead of leaving it with the robot as requested). It provides a nice, obvious reminder for teams when they actually get to the venue to do work, and as a system has worked quite nicely. It also reduces pain all around as most teams get checked off the night before, and we only have to worry about a couple of teams the morning of.

With this change, teams will be hanging out in their pit the night before. Sure, they'll set up... And then they'll want to walk around, talk to other teams, check out other robots. Do we try to regulate or stop that? It'll be just like the chaos that normally happens when pits open for work on the first day. If we use the same red and green sheets, someone will undoubtedly see green and snip the ziptie without thinking. If we wait until everyone leaves, then the volunteers have to stay longer to finish the job.

And most of our venues don't have room for a "robot jail". It's something we've used for our state event before, but that event is only 30 teams held in a venue that holds a 63 team regional earlier in the season, which gives us plenty of room.

I like the color code, John. Maybe inspectors could put a white sheet marked 'pre-inspected' on robot bags that clear initially, still use red for problems and kick teams out a half hour earlier than normal if you don't want to ask volunteers to stay a half hour extra. During half hour window with no teams in pits the inspectors just put a green check mark or sticker on the white pre-inspection sheet taped to the robot bags? Teams are told before, during load in that absolutely no bags are to be opened before Thursday morning and then only if green checked? Our load-in at LVR has been 6-8pm. Venue set up has always been far enough along that we could move start to 5:30 without problem if we still wanted teams to have 2 hours for load in/pit set up and get volunteers out by 8 pm. Several ways to make things work, I think.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

"robot jail"

I believe the correct term should be: Robo fermé

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

...

I assume you are connected enough to the RPC in Minnesota if you're not on it. Looks like y'all can just stick with keeping the current system in place since FIRST has left that option available.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I assume you are connected enough to the RPC in Minnesota if you're not on it. Looks like y'all can just stick with keeping the current system in place since FIRST has left that option available.

It's a much more difficult decision than that... I'm 100% positive that teams in the area will want this, and that some of them would loudly complain if we don't do it. The RPC (which I am a member of) has to figure out what's best for the region as a whole before making a decision. Items like volunteer availability, venue restrictions, cost (volunteers Wednesday evening usually get fed, which costs $), typical pit setup time in our events (i can think of at least one pit that takes over an hour to setup and a lot of space in the isle to do... How do we monitor safety with a skeleton volunteer crew? Other pits look are practically finished when they wheel the pieces in and put them in the right spot), typical team load-in time (if half the teams load-in during the first half hour, it makes sense to let them hang out and set up their pit. If they all load-in real late because they had to wait until school was out to drive several hours to the event, then it doesn't make sense). These are just the considerations that come to mind right now.

I have no idea what the answer is going to be once we've considered all the factors and decide on what's best for our events. But I expect it will be discussed at our next RPC meeting - we had one last week, so it will probably be a few weeks until we all get together to discuss it.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

i can think of at least one pit that takes over an hour to setup and a lot of space in the isle to do...

This. Really. Bugs. Me. It's why we no longer have a canopy and why we are constantly working on our pit furniture and trying to make it more functional and less decorative.

Seriously, teams that should know better take up valuable space in the aisles of the pit area and cause many safety issues, not just for the inspectors but for other teams. I don't feel like this is something FIRST should issue language around but we as teams should make a bigger deal out of pit preparation etiquette. Pits should be setup quickly and provide a safe place to work without encroaching on the aisles or other pits.

[MattRain]

I don't see a problem with them going to the 1 trophy, 1 plaque idea. The last thing they need to do is shrink the trophies again. At least FRC teams can order more, unlike FTC.

Question to any FRC team that is a World Champion, is your trophy the same size as a state-awarded trophy, or bigger? (I know the FRC Chairman's Trophy is bigger, what about the WINNERs trophy though)

(Our team was "disappointed" to see that our FTC World Champion Trophy was the same size... haha)

[marshall]

Originally Posted by MattRain

I don't see a problem with them going to the 1 trophy, 1 plaque idea. The last thing they need to do is shrink the trophies again. At least FRC teams can order more, unlike FTC.

Question to any FRC team that is a World Champion, is your trophy the same size as a state-awarded trophy, or bigger? (I know the FRC Chairman's Trophy is bigger, what about the WINNERs trophy though)

(Our team was "disappointed" to see that our FTC World Champion Trophy was the same size... haha)

The division winner trophies from last year are larger than the regional winner trophies.