[FRC Blog] Pit Set-Up and Trophies

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I assume you are connected enough to the RPC in Minnesota if you're not on it. Looks like y'all can just stick with keeping the current system in place since FIRST has left that option available.

It's a much more difficult decision than that... I'm 100% positive that teams in the area will want this, and that some of them would loudly complain if we don't do it. The RPC (which I am a member of) has to figure out what's best for the region as a whole before making a decision. Items like volunteer availability, venue restrictions, cost (volunteers Wednesday evening usually get fed, which costs $), typical pit setup time in our events (i can think of at least one pit that takes over an hour to setup and a lot of space in the isle to do... How do we monitor safety with a skeleton volunteer crew? Other pits look are practically finished when they wheel the pieces in and put them in the right spot), typical team load-in time (if half the teams load-in during the first half hour, it makes sense to let them hang out and set up their pit. If they all load-in real late because they had to wait until school was out to drive several hours to the event, then it doesn't make sense). These are just the considerations that come to mind right now.

I have no idea what the answer is going to be once we've considered all the factors and decide on what's best for our events. But I expect it will be discussed at our next RPC meeting - we had one last week, so it will probably be a few weeks until we all get together to discuss it.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

i can think of at least one pit that takes over an hour to setup and a lot of space in the isle to do...

This. Really. Bugs. Me. It's why we no longer have a canopy and why we are constantly working on our pit furniture and trying to make it more functional and less decorative.

Seriously, teams that should know better take up valuable space in the aisles of the pit area and cause many safety issues, not just for the inspectors but for other teams. I don't feel like this is something FIRST should issue language around but we as teams should make a bigger deal out of pit preparation etiquette. Pits should be setup quickly and provide a safe place to work without encroaching on the aisles or other pits.

[MattRain]

I don't see a problem with them going to the 1 trophy, 1 plaque idea. The last thing they need to do is shrink the trophies again. At least FRC teams can order more, unlike FTC.

Question to any FRC team that is a World Champion, is your trophy the same size as a state-awarded trophy, or bigger? (I know the FRC Chairman's Trophy is bigger, what about the WINNERs trophy though)

(Our team was "disappointed" to see that our FTC World Champion Trophy was the same size... haha)

[marshall]

Originally Posted by MattRain

I don't see a problem with them going to the 1 trophy, 1 plaque idea. The last thing they need to do is shrink the trophies again. At least FRC teams can order more, unlike FTC.

Question to any FRC team that is a World Champion, is your trophy the same size as a state-awarded trophy, or bigger? (I know the FRC Chairman's Trophy is bigger, what about the WINNERs trophy though)

(Our team was "disappointed" to see that our FTC World Champion Trophy was the same size... haha)

The division winner trophies from last year are larger than the regional winner trophies.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by marshall

This. Really. Bugs. Me. It's why we no longer have a canopy and why we are constantly working on our pit furniture and trying to make it more functional and less decorative.

Seriously, teams that should know better take up valuable space in the aisles of the pit area and cause many safety issues, not just for the inspectors but for other teams. I don't feel like this is something FIRST should issue language around but we as teams should make a bigger deal out of pit preparation etiquette. Pits should be setup quickly and provide a safe place to work without encroaching on the aisles or other pits.

This is part of the point of letting teams do it early. If they take up some of the aisle, it's much less of an issue on Wednesday night with 5 or fewer people per team than it is on Thursday morning with every team member wanting to come to the pits. There has always been a window for teams to arrive of a 1-2 hours, and from what I've seen as an inspector (who had to be there for load in), teams tend to not arrive all at the same time on Wednesday. It's rather staggered, so the aisles are even less of an issue than 5 people per team all at the same time.

Just keep the window the same and make all the teams leave by the deadline, and you won't have to keep volunteers any later than normal. Just set the stipulation that when they're done setting up their pits, they need to leave the venue. I think people are making it a bigger issue than it really is.

[D_Price]

I would much rather teams take up the isle space on the wednesday night load-in period than the Thursday "Morning-Scramble" as I like to call it. As people stated the amount of space needed to complete some pits becomes a safety hazard during that early morning when everyone is running around trying to get their robots competition ready.

[FrankJ]

Since the Peachtree & Georgia Southern Classic will not be doing this, not an issue for me. (We went to districts.) We were there fairly late anyway clearing bag tags. I don't see it taking more volunteers to supervise pit set up. I think telling teams not to un bag robot & keeping the number allowed per team down will solve many issues. The biggest issue I see is keeping teams from trying to fabricate or modify the un-bagged allowance during this time. It has been my experience that few teams try to push these kinds of limits. Even then it is more often ignorance of the rules than malicious intent.

The issue with taken up aisle space during load in is you are moving pits into place at that time. Presumably using the same aisle space.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

As long as they aren't the district trophies from 2012...

They were pretty much these:
https://www.crownawards.com/StoreFro...x_Trophies.cat

But a lable instead of the "engraved" logo. They were really really cheap looking.

I like the look of the plaques from the link, and think those are a really neat idea.

[MattRain]

Originally Posted by marshall

The division winner trophies from last year are larger than the regional winner trophies.

Thought so.... Would be nice if they did that for the World Champions in FTC.

Originally Posted by IKE

They were pretty much these:
https://www.crownawards.com/StoreFro...x_Trophies.cat

But a lable instead of the "engraved" logo. They were really really cheap looking.

I like the look of the plaques from the link, and think those are a really neat idea.

At least those look better than the FTC Qualifier Trophies... The FTC Qualifier Trophies looks like a "little league" participation trophy....

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by marshall

This. Really. Bugs. Me. It's why we no longer have a canopy and why we are constantly working on our pit furniture and trying to make it more functional and less decorative.

Seriously, teams that should know better take up valuable space in the aisles of the pit area and cause many safety issues, not just for the inspectors but for other teams. I don't feel like this is something FIRST should issue language around but we as teams should make a bigger deal out of pit preparation etiquette. Pits should be setup quickly and provide a safe place to work without encroaching on the aisles or other pits.

You would have flipped out if you'd been at a regional with 2220 in 2013, then. That was far, far worse than what Jon's talking about now (though I certainly don't intend to put words in your mouth, Jon, I just know that the description you gave matches 2220's pit). I can tell you that more time than some teams spend on their robots has been spent by students and mentors on Blue Twilight trying to figure out how to set that thing up in less time and without leaving the pit. If I remember correctly, the only part that involves leaving the pit now is hanging a TV in the front, and that's a relatively quick thing that, at least when I was with the team, we tended to do Thursday evening specifically for the reasons you've specified-- and it's definitely worth mentioning that 2220 won a couple of UL Safety awards last season for their safety program (which, funnily enough, largely stemmed from the pit back in 13).

Sorry to sort of jump on this, but there's a lot more that goes into setting up some of these displays than some would give these teams credit for. A professional pit also brings something very unique and cool to an event (I still remember being blown away by 2826's pit in 2012-- it was a huge inspiration then and now).

It's also definitely worth mentioning (as others have) that setting up Wednesday would eliminate a huge amount of the jostling around pit setup on practice day. I'm certainly hoping my schedule will allow me to volunteer Wednesday nights to help make this happen at MN events. Just one more of the many small improvements that have made FRC better in the last few years.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

I'd like to take a minute to thank FIRST for their decision regarding load in. From the top it's easy choose a one-size-fits-all rule and make everyone else deal with the drawbacks. This decision seems to be pretty great from an efficiency perspective: event organizers and teams should both be at least as well off as before.

Event organizers have the option to say no, in which case setup proceeds as before. And the organizers don't really even have to add communication since teams can just assume that the new setup is not allowed unless they hear otherwise. Meanwhile, teams may get to set up their pits earlier but if it's not allowed or they don't hear what the event decided they end up the same place they would have been anyway.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by marshall

The division winner trophies from last year are larger than the regional winner trophies.

The division winner trophies are similar to the ones they gave way back when to the finalists at regionals.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It's a much more difficult decision than that... I'm 100% positive that teams in the area will want this, and that some of them would loudly complain if we don't do it. [...] Other pits look are practically finished when they wheel the pieces in and put them in the right spot),

And I rather suspect that the complaining teams will also have that "finished" look even if they don't get the early setup. We got 'em out this way too.

[Nemo]

My opinion: it is unnecessary to erect a building in one's pit for every competition. If that effort is eating into the time needed for other activities, perhaps it would be best to simplify one's pit setup.