Official FIRST Stronghold Teaser!

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Libby K

But as far as bringing people from 'outside the tent' in to FIRST? I'd pick an actual sport any day.

As far as I'm concerned, 2010 and 2012 were the 2nd and 3rd most boring games in FRC since 2004 (2015 takes the cake, and I can't speak to earlier games).

What's most important is that the robot is exciting, not that the robot plays with soccerballs or foam basketballs.

We don't need a sport themed game. We don't even need a theme at all. We need an exciting game that's easy for spectators to understand and fun for teams to play.

We won't know if we have that until at least January 9, so don't be so quick to write this game off less than 24 hours after seeing a teaser.

[KeeganP]

I know many have pointed out the possibility of a "capture the flag" type game, but what if you take that a step farther and (using the two holes drilled on Dozer in the video) put a "target" on there. Now, the objective is to capture the flag (and defend your own flag from being captured) while getting hit as few times as possible. Maybe the "ammunition" are tennis balls. Maybe the game ends when you have successfully captured the flag and raised it up on your own "tower" or when time expires -- whichever comes first.

Alternatively, maybe we have another end game where you must raise the opposing flag up fastest (think 2011 but with flags, not minibots).

FIRST spent a ton of money on the totes this year, so I could potentially see them using the totes to build the "towers" on the field. Still not sure what purpose they serve exactly (I don't exactly see another 2003-style "knock it down to score points!" game.

In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.

[rlowe61]

After watching the video multiple times,
1. People are reading too much into the tents with the colored flags, imagine the tents are pits, no two are the same and all have different colors.
2. The map looks mirrored (somewhat), with a obstacle on each half (placement about like the scoring platform of recycle rush) and a major obstacle in the center, which resembles a "figure 8".

My best guess of something fun is, of course "Capture the Flag", however with a "twist". To get to the opposite side of the field, or return, you have to drive the "Figure 8" (enter in the middle, do a full 8 and exit the middle.
Imagine the collisions! Or better yet. after running half of the 8 you have to pass the flag off to an alliance partner to complete the 8 and return to your half for scoring.

We all know there are many things that can happen from the multiple possible hints given in the video.
Who knows, maybe the GDC is reading this and many other forums for hints on how to alter their plans for the game. There's still plenty of time to change the game and cut the release video. Be careful what you guess it might come true.

Have Fun and Good Luck

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by rlowe61

Who knows, maybe the GDC is reading this and many other forums for hints on how to alter their plans for the game. There's still plenty of time to change the game and cut the release video. Be careful what you guess it might come true.

I don't think they have time to substantially change the configuration of the game at this point. It's less than 2 months to ship date. They might tweak the rules, but that's it.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

I don't think they have time to substantially change the configuration of the game at this point. It's less than 2 months to ship date. They might tweak the rules, but that's it.

Pretty much this. All the information I've ever seen on the game-design process indicates that the time-scales involved in setting games for each year is years, not weeks.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by KeeganP

In other news, how might one pick up a 1"dia PVC pipe (flag pole) off the ground? A fast, accurate mechanism that does that would be potentially tricky to build robustly enough to survive being hit by other robots. during gameplay.

The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

The manipulators on Gripper (the robot in the video) seem better adapted to pick up and position a flagpole than a ball.

Because the robots in any of the game videos have always had efficient manipulators for the game pieces

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

What's most important is that the robot is exciting, not that the robot plays with soccerballs or foam basketballs.

We don't need a sport themed game. We don't even need a theme at all. We need an exciting game that's easy for spectators to understand and fun for teams to play.

We won't know if we have that until at least January 9, so don't be so quick to write this game off less than 24 hours after seeing a teaser.

Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

I think playground games like capture the flag (seemingly the consensus for this game), dodgeball, four square, tetherball could be good alternatives that also can capture the public's attention. We don't need to stick to the "commercial" sports.

True! IMO if it's something recognizable and spectator-friendly it's good - no matter what the theme. But that's the stuff we have to wait until January for.

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Excellent point, you're totally right. (Though I'm certainly not 'writing off the game' - just expressing that I'm not a fan of the theme.) I only meant to speak to the idea that there's different ways to find common ground for a new spectator - and that FIRST's idea of branding as 'sport for the mind' doesn't necessarily combine with this super well.

I'm excited, as always, for something new - and I know sharing the trailer around the office has gotten a bunch of employees hyped for the season too!

I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, toy story, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by lineskier

I'm personally surprised by the theme as well. I've been very impressed with how Disney has handled certain assets (specifically lucasfilm and marvel) to make STEM seem cool and interesting to the masses. The cartoonish middle ages theme seems a little oddly positioned, especially given some of the current imagineering projects (iron man, star wars, etc). I realize FIRST wouldn't have rights to those assets, but the execution could be similar. I'm quite curious about how much creative direction for the theme came from FIRST vs Disney.

That being said, given the discussions of possible game play, I am optimistically anticipating a game that could be quite entertaining for spectators.

Disney has handled those assets well by take a very hands off approach. The best decision they made after purchasing Marvel was to let them keep doing their thing.

[MoistRobot]

Sticking with a capture the flag and defend/attack theme I'm thinking maybe a target that you fling game pieces at (bean bags?) that will raise your alliance flag (some sort of balance) while it's possible for the opposition to fling them at an opposing target that would lower your flag. You're then left with the choice of trying to raise your flag or lower the opposition's.

[pavong]

What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by pavong

What about the robot in the video, anyone notice the eyes? They look alot like camera lenses, maybe robot vision will play a more important role in the game. Flag colour detection?

This.

Some ideas I've been thinking about:

1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.
2. Based on the fact that every recent year (except Recycle Rush) has had a game piece in the game logo, we can except to see a flag on the field.
3. Only red and blue alliances. The flag in the logo is only red and blue.
4. You'll notice that near the end, the robot drivers are driving while looking down the field. However, their robot is next to them. Maybe you will have to drive other team's robots? (very unlikely, but would require teams to design robots to be able to be driven easily, and have restrictions on the motion of mechanisms)
5. Similar to the last idea, we might have a section of the field where you cannot see your robot and have to drive from camera only. This could explain the design of the robot's eyes. This could also explain the choice to use a radio with only 2 ports, because there could be a rule where you can only use 1 camera.

Put it all together. Red and blue alliances in a CTF game with a tall midfield divider. Each alliance has a certain amount of objects to be captured. You score points by driving to the other alliance's side of the field, capturing a game piece, and delivering it to your side. The catch is that you can only see your robot while defending your flags. As soon as you cross to the opponent's side, you can only rely on camera feedback to capture the other alliance's flags This would make defending much easier, and scoring much more challenging.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Poseidon1671

1. No mentor drive coaches. I'm not saying whether or not it is a good idea, but it seems likely.

I would still say it is unlikely.

[TheRozb]

It's really fun watching this whole thing come alive.
Anyway...

Some ideas that have been brought up:
-Multiple Alliances (more than 2). Probably not. As someone else has stated, field size would be an issue, and trying to increase or change the field size or shape could cause a lot of issues.

-Blueprint being the Field. Maybe??? I'm still skeptical. The middle part seems a bit too big, and the ends don't really look like anything that would be on the field. Plus, it is all a bit to obvious. (or maybe it's not. We are still talking about it)

-CTF. Sure, but how would that work well? Grab a flag... and then??? Drop it off at your team stand for a point? Time based in possession? It would be hard to do well. Maybe I just have a small mind

-Classes. Unlikely. Not really fair, because then you are forcing teams into a cookie cutter which isn't really what FIRST is about.

-Competitive Interaction between alliances (aka Defense). I really hope that last year's lack of interaction was a onetime thing. After all, they want to appeal to a broader audience, and would you rather watch a round of football live, or a round of golf live? (not trying to insult to golf players out there). Just that defense makes the game MUCH more interesting.

Well, that was my soapbox.