FRC Blog - Something New - Team 'Standards'

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

EXACTLY!! (I prefer INDYCAR but that's another conversation).

The point is this: Why are we trying to put down something that another group likes to do? Are we in some sort of nerd pecking order? How many years have we been fighting to make robots "cool?" (It's still nerdy/geeky and i'm ok with that.) If you don't like the theme, that's fine. Don't partake in it. This "fantasy" theme is very mainstream. Look at the pop culture this is centered around fantasy. Maybe, just maybe, they are trying to appeal to a different population that has not been interested in FIRST before?

Agreed. FIRST had sports themed games in 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013, and even some of the other games were still "sport-like". There's nothing wrong with trying something new. Robots will still be built and played with, and a new group of people may be reached. If people weren't brought into FIRST by all of the sports games we've had recently, why would they now?

Also to people just complaining and being negative here, please go be negative elsewhere.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Also to people just complaining and being negative here, please go be negative elsewhere.

That's very open minded of you.

Remember, we all want the same thing here; more inspiration and a wider reach for the program.

We just disagree with the methods.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

That's very open minded of you.

Remember, we all want the same thing here; more inspiration and a wider reach for the program.

We just disagree with the methods.

Fair enough.

I don't see why we have to have sport themed games for it to be "cool". I brought some friends of mine to a competition this year who would be considered "jocks" or "cool kids" and they didn't care that it was recycling themed (which I would say is worse than medieval in terms of bringing people into FIRST). All they saw were the cool robots doing things and how much fun it was.

Not everyone likes sports, some people like other things such as fantasy. We've had plenty of opportunities to use sports themes to bring people in. And this Standard is just like recycling cans this year: symbolic of a theme that matters less than the robots itself.

I guess my main beef with your point is that you're making it seem like its an awful thing to be nerdy, when in reality there's nothing wrong with it. My friends found FIRST nerdy but still enjoyed seeing the robots and competitions and thought it was awesome.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Fair enough.

Not everyone likes sports, some people like other things such as fantasy. We've had plenty of opportunities to use sports themes to bring people in. And this Standard is just like recycling cans this year: symbolic of a theme that matters less than the robots itself.

I don't think this debate is sports vs non-sports. What I believe Adam and some of the others are trying to say is that a good robot game is more important than a theme. Ultimate Ascent wasn't sports themed, it used a Frisbee as a game object but there wasn't much of anything of Ultimate Frisbee involved, it was just a good robot game. Theme or not the most important aspects of robot games should be put at the top of the priority list. In my opinion watchable and strategically interesting games are more important then fleeting interest by pedestrians walking by (most people stop and look for a little while anyway, it's already cool robots). Often the themes takes away from that because if even a single thing about the game or balance is changed to make the theme better now you have made the game a little worse.

I like to look at most of the VEX games as good examples of robot games. Very few of them are themed in anyway but they allow for season long strategy and robot iterations (in most years).

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

I don't see why we have to have sport themed games for it to be "cool". I brought some friends of mine to a competition this year who would be considered "jocks" or "cool kids" and they didn't care that it was recycling themed (which I would say is worse than medieval in terms of bringing people into FIRST). All they saw were the cool robots doing things and how much fun it was.

Not everyone likes sports, some people like other things such as fantasy. We've had plenty of opportunities to use sports themes to bring people in. And this Standard is just like recycling cans this year: symbolic of a theme that matters less than the robots itself.
...

I agree, it doesn't have to be sport themed for it to be cool. I don't think there should be a theme for our games, just give us a good competitive game with defense. As Jared said, the most important part is having a competitive game on the field that is fun to play and spectator friendly. Watching robots stack crates will look kinda interesting at best, but watching robots fighting for game pieces and executing strategies, with some good crowd excitement may actually get people not under the tent to look more into it.

I think had FIRST announced the theme as part of the game at kickoff, this announcement would've been received better. It just feels like HQ is trying too hard to make it a "thing". I've seen ads on sites I visit for Stronghold, and if the first impression of FRC someone gets is a cartoon trailer and a medieval theme, they'll think it's just some ren fair re-enactment using robots or something. We have nerds under the tent. What we want are more engineers to want to mentor, and more of the other crowds of kids.

As far as the standard is concerned, it'll be great to have another display of our brand, logo, and sponsors. I could care less about badges and streamers and that nonsense. Our standard will probably just be a professional display that reflects our team. It's a neat idea, and would've been even cooler if they just told us "you can have a team display above your driver station now, here are the specs:", instead of integrating it with the theme.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

It's a neat idea, and would've been even cooler if they just told us "you can have a team display above your driver station now, here are the specs:", instead of integrating it with the theme.

That's my major logistical issue. Teams like to reuse things because we're not all made of money, and half of the money we're made of goes to registering for and attending the competitions. I see it as teams getting to mark off their "endzone" which sounds neat, but really broad and uneven rules and stretching to tie it into the theme is offputting and concerning. I'm not someone busting down doors screaming "THESE ARE THE END TIMES" but whatever.

Also, I don't remember there being a lot of groans over teams who won the 4 banner awards at an event being able to cut down the nets in 2012. Why? Great game with a neat theme that wasn't forced. We're projecting the 2015 experience onto the 2016 theme. It's not entirely unfair, but it's a conclusion drawn from incomplete facts.

[Madison]

FIRST has a history of game design that does a poor job of incentivizing teams to do things in the manner the GDC envisioned and so they often create arbitrary, difficult to enforce rules so a game plays out the way they'd like. Often, this happens when a heavy-handed 'theme' is overlaid atop a game or when special focus is paid to what spectators think.

Here's hoping that the game itself is a good game first and thematically consistent second.