Go to Post But on the plus side, we can drive the robot with a DDR pad, which is crazy-stupid-cool. - Not2B [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Pneumatics
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 3.50 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 14:46
staplemonx's Avatar
staplemonx staplemonx is offline
The Idea Guy
AKA: JJ Biel-Goebel
FRC #1389 (The Body Electric)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 248
staplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond repute
Pneumatics off board recharge packs

We are looking to create an off robot pneumatics recharge pack for this season and have had a hard time finding some good examples to start with. Could CD folks post a few pics of pneumatics off robot recharge packs that they liked. Thanks!
__________________
crazy engineer
www.jjbiel-goebel.com
helping team 1389
http://team1389.com/
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 17:11
Foster Foster is offline
Engineering Program Management
VRC #8081 (STEMRobotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 1,387
Foster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond reputeFoster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

I think because most of us thought strapping a compressor and an air tank on the back of a human was a bad idea. That slight possibility of a 100PSI rupture causing injury was a primary factor.

You should be able to find that discussion.
__________________
Foster - VEX Delaware - 17 teams -- Chief Roboteer STEMRobotics.org
2010 - Mentor of the Year - VEX Clean Sweep World Championship
2006-2016, a decade of doing VEX, time really flies while having fun
Downingtown Area Robotics Web site and VEXMen Team Site come see what we can do for you.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 17:13
orangemoore orangemoore is offline
Registered User
AKA: Roger Moore
FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,307
orangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foster View Post
I think because most of us thought strapping a compressor and an air tank on the back of a human was a bad idea. That slight possibility of a 100PSI rupture causing injury was a primary factor.

You should be able to find that discussion.
Before we go down this rabbit hole,

JJ, What exactly are you trying to accomplish with the project? When would this be used?
__________________
Stronghold


Student 2013-2016
3135 -- Robotic Colonels
3507 -- Robotheosis (FTC)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 19:32
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,726
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Also, bear in mind that if you are using this pack--in whatever form--to charge your tanks before matches, the way the rules were for 2015, you won't be able to have an onboard compressor. I want to say someone even Q&A'd it.



(For practice is another story--but then you just have to consider safety and getting the air to the robot.)
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 20:01
orangemoore orangemoore is offline
Registered User
AKA: Roger Moore
FRC #3135 (Robotic Colonels)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,307
orangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond reputeorangemoore has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Also, bear in mind that if you are using this pack--in whatever form--to charge your tanks before matches, the way the rules were for 2015, you won't be able to have an onboard compressor. I want to say someone even Q&A'd it.



(For practice is another story--but then you just have to consider safety and getting the air to the robot.)
R68
Quote:
Compressed air on the ROBOT must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not
exceed nominal 12VDC, 1.05 cfm flow rate.
__________________
Stronghold


Student 2013-2016
3135 -- Robotic Colonels
3507 -- Robotheosis (FTC)
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2015, 23:56
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Electrical/Programming Mentor
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,735
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

I'd also like to point out the 2015 R70:
Quote:
“Stored” air pressure on the ROBOT must be no greater than 120 psi. No stored air pressure intended for the ROBOT may be
located off-board the ROBOT.
Emphasis mine. While you could have a "pack" (read: self contained module) with the compressor, gauges, hoses and such that comprises a legal, off-robot compressor system, you may NOT have any air storage on that off-robot system.
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-11-2015, 10:22
staplemonx's Avatar
staplemonx staplemonx is offline
The Idea Guy
AKA: JJ Biel-Goebel
FRC #1389 (The Body Electric)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 248
staplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemoore View Post
Before we go down this rabbit hole,

JJ, What exactly are you trying to accomplish with the project? When would this be used?
Over the weekend we saw FRC 346 had a great air recharge pack. It had all of the things it legally needed and was in a great configuration. Let's say is was 12"x8"x10" I did not take a photo and I should have. So I am looking for some more examples to show my kids so they can make one.

I have no idea if we are going to use it this season, but it looks like a great project for a few kids to take on.
__________________
crazy engineer
www.jjbiel-goebel.com
helping team 1389
http://team1389.com/
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-11-2015, 14:35
GeeTwo's Avatar
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Technical Director
AKA: Gus Michel II
FRC #3946 (Tiger Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 3,564
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by staplemonx View Post
Over the weekend we saw FRC 346 had a great air recharge pack. It had all of the things it legally needed and was in a great configuration. Let's say is was 12"x8"x10" I did not take a photo and I should have. So I am looking for some more examples to show my kids so they can make one.
R74 and R75 of the 2015 rules have simple diagrams showing what should be in the off-board compressor unit. There aren't really enough components to need very much creativity to build it elegantly; just make sure that you can carry it without touching the (hot!) compressor. Some quick-disconnects for the wires (e.g. Andersons) are also in order.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-11-2015, 16:30
FrankJ's Avatar
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
Robot Mentor
FRC #2974 (WALT)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Marietta GA
Posts: 1,899
FrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Not particularly FRC legal, but if you wanted a recharge pack. Probably need to add a regulator. Are if you want to barbecue...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	better tank position ghost.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	58.2 KB
ID:	19417  Click image for larger version

Name:	pic_1_63051.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	68.6 KB
ID:	19418  
__________________
If you don't know what you should hook up then you should read a data sheet
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2015, 13:00
346CADmen's Avatar
346CADmen 346CADmen is offline
Registered User
FRC #0346
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by staplemonx View Post
Over the weekend we saw FRC 346 had a great air recharge pack. It had all of the things it legally needed and was in a great configuration. Let's say is was 12"x8"x10" I did not take a photo and I should have. So I am looking for some more examples to show my kids so they can make one.

I have no idea if we are going to use it this season, but it looks like a great project for a few kids to take on.
Will add some pics and spec's when I get to the shop, stay tuned.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-11-2015, 14:57
yara92's Avatar
yara92 yara92 is offline
M.Fawdah Mechanical engineering
AKA: Mohamed
FRC #1946 (Mechka Monster)
Team Role: RoboCoach
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Israel
Posts: 236
yara92 will become famous soon enoughyara92 will become famous soon enough
Re: Pneumatics hand

We are looking to create an grabber pneumatics (hand for this season to school kids at near area to give them chance to play with it,.
any some good examples to start with. Thanks!
__________________
TEAM 1946-Tamra
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-11-2015, 15:28
346CADmen's Avatar
346CADmen 346CADmen is offline
Registered User
FRC #0346
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold346CADmen is a splendid one to behold
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 346CADmen View Post
Will add some pics and spec's when I get to the shop, stay tuned.
OK a few photo's as you mentioned missing the opportunity to take some.
Click image for larger version

Name:	STRG-REG.jpeg
Views:	145
Size:	943.2 KB
ID:	19432

Click image for larger version

Name:	CPAC-BAT-CON.jpeg
Views:	83
Size:	921.5 KB
ID:	19433 We can run off a spare battery, but during competition we are able to power off the robot battery.


Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3259.JPG.jpeg
Views:	93
Size:	907.0 KB
ID:	19434 Gives an appreciation for size.

In a re design we may add slots to the wood frame on the compressor side for improved cooling. Not that we've had an issue, more of a can't hurt improvement.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-11-2015, 15:44
GeeTwo's Avatar
GeeTwo GeeTwo is offline
Technical Director
AKA: Gus Michel II
FRC #3946 (Tiger Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 3,564
GeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond reputeGeeTwo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

You would not be able to use the pack pictured above for competition under either of these 2015 rules - no battery, no switch, and no air tanks can be off board. There may be some other nitnoids, but I stopped looking after these obvious ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R69
The compressor (permitted per R68) may be located off-board, however the compressor must still be controlled and powered
by the ROBOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R70
“Stored” air pressure on the ROBOT must be no greater than 120 psi. No stored air pressure intended for the ROBOT may be
located off-board the ROBOT.
__________________

If you can't find time to do it right, how are you going to find time to do it over?
If you don't pass it on, it never happened.
Robots are great, but inspiration is the reason we're here.
Friends don't let friends use master links.

Last edited by GeeTwo : 13-11-2015 at 15:49.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-11-2015, 16:47
Joey1939's Avatar
Joey1939 Joey1939 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Joey Holliday
FRC #1939 (Kuhnigits)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2014
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 139
Joey1939 has a spectacular aura aboutJoey1939 has a spectacular aura aboutJoey1939 has a spectacular aura about
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

I am also very confused by the pictured recharge pack. Not only is it not legal (must be controlled and powered by robot), but having tanks onboard the pack makes no sense to me. I am going to assume that your goal is to fill the tanks on the robot and that you started with the tanks on the pack full before connecting it to the robot. The air stored on board the pack will spread equally through out the system and drop in overall pressure. Then you would have to leave it connected with the compressor running until not only the robot was full, but also the onboard tanks. I believe that it would take an equal amount of time as without tanks to fill the robot, therefore it is unnecessary to have the tanks.
__________________


  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-11-2015, 16:59
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,585
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: Pneumatics off board recharge packs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey1939 View Post
I am also very confused by the pictured recharge pack. Not only is it not legal (must be controlled and powered by robot), but having tanks onboard the pack makes no sense to me. I am going to assume that your goal is to fill the tanks on the robot and that you started with the tanks on the pack full before connecting it to the robot. The air stored on board the pack will spread equally through out the system and drop in overall pressure. Then you would have to leave it connected with the compressor running until not only the robot was full, but also the onboard tanks. I believe that it would take an equal amount of time as without tanks to fill the robot, therefore it is unnecessary to have the tanks.
My guess would be, since it's not controlled by the robot (once again, <R69>), and thus not limited by the pressure switch, they fill those tanks beyond 120psi. They probably use that final pressure regulator to ensure a 120psi fill into their on-board storage.
__________________
Being correct doesn't mean you don't have to explain yourself.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:36.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi