FRC Blog - Get Ready to Make FIRST Choices

[Jared Russell]

Every time I feel compelled to complain about the size of the kit of parts now versus in the past, I remember that the incredible growth in the quality, diversity, affordability, and availability of FRC-specific COTS items over the past decade (and general loosening of allowed COTS parts rules) means we are getting a MUCH better deal now than at any other point in FRC history.

Think about it:

15 years ago, the registration fee (for a single regional, where you were probably getting 7-10 matches) was still $5000. Adjusted for inflation, that's $6900 today. In 2005, it was raised to $6000, or $7300 today. In the past, you got a slightly larger kit (although no kitbot until...2005?), but there was no AndyMark or VexPro. There were heavy restrictions on what you could use outside of the kit.

Today we pay ~$2000 less for the same registration (which is also going to tend to be for a closer event with more matches than in the past) and have FIRST Choice. Yes, you might not end up with your preferred parts. Yes, you haul less stuff home from kickoff. But compared to the past, a $2000 voucher for the 2015 version of AndyMark + Vex is BY FAR the best deal we've EVER gotten.

[bigbeezy]

I really like FIRSTChoice. They've done a great job with it (continuing to make improvements) and have cut down on team's stockpiling useless (to them) items. We used to get so many things that my teams would never touch and would just sit on a shelf taking up space, and eventually they'd get thrown away. I'm glad that now I don't have to deal with that (mostly, please no more throttle motors ) and teams that do want those items have the opportunity.

[pribusin]

A huge thank you to AndyMark and their staff for providing this very much free service to the teams. Without your efforts and the generosity of the donors, these FirstChoice parts may not be available to us at all and we would have to spend team funds to purchase similar items.

THANK YOU

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

Every time I feel compelled to complain about the size of the kit of parts now versus in the past, I remember that the incredible growth in the quality, diversity, affordability, and availability of FRC-specific COTS items over the past decade (and general loosening of allowed COTS parts rules) means we are getting a MUCH better deal now than at any other point in FRC history.

Think about it:

15 years ago, the registration fee (for a single regional, where you were probably getting 7-10 matches) was still $5000. Adjusted for inflation, that's $6900 today. In 2005, it was raised to $6000, or $7300 today. In the past, you got a slightly larger kit (although no kitbot until...2005?), but there was no AndyMark or VexPro. There were heavy restrictions on what you could use outside of the kit.

Today we pay ~$2000 less for the same registration (which is also going to tend to be for a closer event with more matches than in the past) and have FIRST Choice. Yes, you might not end up with your preferred parts. Yes, you haul less stuff home from kickoff. But compared to the past, a $2000 voucher for the 2015 version of AndyMark + Vex is BY FAR the best deal we've EVER gotten.

Absolutely agreed on all points. All factors considered (vouchers, FC, etc), it's a great value. Back in the day, we never had the kind of product donation vouchers we do now. Bimba was about it.

As for the kitbot, that came about in 2003. Anyone remember those right angle helical gears, plastic gearbox pieces, and gigantic 2x4 aluminum rectangular tubes? I think it even included some Skyway 9x2 wheels. Ah, Skyway wheels, that takes me back. As much of a failure as that system was along with the terrible Bosch drill gearboxes, the Bosch drill motors were amazingly powerful for their size, and I wouldn't mind something like that returning (so long as they didn't have the fragile plastic brush-holder assembly). 2005 was the first year of the "modern"-era kitbot with the metric gearbox designed by Paul Copioli, and then I think in 06 it went to an AndyMark Toughbox, and at some point it changed to a CIM-ple Box.

[bigbeezy]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

2005 was the first year of the "modern"-era kitbot with the metric gearbox designed by Paul Copioli, and then I think in 06 it went to an AndyMark Toughbox, and at some point it changed to a CIM-ple Box.

The '05 gearbox was still used in 2006. 2007 teams got Banebot planetary that had some issues at first. Toughbox was in the 2008 kit.

[Munchskull]

I think that FIRST Choice is great. I always love to look at the stuff and am excited since this year I will have a large say in what my team gets. The tool that I would absolutely love to see on the list would have to be a 1/2" hex broach.

[MrRoboSteve]

Your mental model of FC is important to understanding it.

FIRST Choice is _not_ a bunch of stuff selected by FIRST to help you build this year's robot.

FIRST Choice is a bunch of potentially useful stuff donated by suppliers. You're buying not just for this year but for your stockpile as well.

Last year, we got solenoids, NPT fittings, a crimper, pneumatic tubing, among other things. None of it ended up on the robot.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Munchskull

I think that FIRST Choice is great. I always love to look at the stuff and am excited since this year I will have a large say in what my team gets. The tool that I would absolutely love to see on the list would have to be a 1/2" hex broach.

Pretty sure you won't be seeing that broach on FC anytime soon...

[Team3844]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

FIRST Choice - Update for 2015
AndyMark also contributes FTA's (a volunteer position, but they pay their employees to volunteer for FIRST) and other field support personnel for many events during the season. Andy and Mark really believe in and support the FIRST mission.
You can check their website for what everyone does.

We host an off-season event using an Andymark field. they only charge us $100 for the FTA that they send down to help setup and run the event, last year they sent 2 for that price. The FTA they send is always great and they go way beyond what you would think to help have a good event. We use Andymark for as much of our robot purchasing as we can. It pains me when we have to purchase from Vex.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by Team3844

It pains me when we have to purchase from Vex.

That's sad. VEX does a ton of things each year to help teams. Their staff and parts are first rate (pun intended).

You should be going "Love AM, lets buy there. Sigh AM is out, let me look at VEX they support us too. Really, No stock?. Hey RC at Westcoast? In stock! Ship it" Yay us, doged the weird overseas groups and E-Bay. "

I have a serious robot crush on AM and VEX (the restraining order gets lifted next month). I'm excited to see new suppliers that are robot friendly, I try to make sure they are all aound next year.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Team3844

We host an off-season event using an Andymark field. they only charge us $100 for the FTA that they send down to help setup and run the event, last year they sent 2 for that price. The FTA they send is always great and they go way beyond what you would think to help have a good event. We use Andymark for as much of our robot purchasing as we can. It pains me when we have to purchase from Vex.

The $100 for the FTA is probably just to put them up in a hotel room and two fit in a room as easily as one does.
Transportation is the field truck.

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

The $100 for the FTA is probably just to put them up in a hotel room and two fit in a room as easily as one does.
Transportation is the field truck.

The truck stays for the event, so usually the hotel costs for the driver is figured in with the overall costs. To provide an FTA is a separate $100 cost. The events I have organized and been involved with we have a local FTA run and we aren't charged this $100 fee, even though one of their FTA's is usually the person who drives the truck out anyway.

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by Foster

That's sad. VEX does a ton of things each year to help teams. Their staff and parts are first rate (pun intended).

You should be going "Love AM, lets buy there. Sigh AM is out, let me look at VEX they support us too. Really, No stock?. Hey RC at Westcoast? In stock! Ship it" Yay us, doged the weird overseas groups and E-Bay. "

I have a serious robot crush on AM and VEX (the restraining order gets lifted next month). I'm excited to see new suppliers that are robot friendly, I try to make sure they are all aound next year.

Same here, I go AM first, as if it gets out the door in the morning I usually have it the next afternoon. Vex takes longer, obviously, so they are my second choice.

[feverittm]

Has anyone been able to figure if/when FC will open for "window shopping"? Will we have to just wait until the 19th to even see what might be available?

I guess it isn't a really big deal with 'wish lists', but it was nice last year being able to just look at what might be there and do some early planning.

[Taylor]

http://isFIRSTChoiceavailableyet.com

Somebody make that a thing