Former Mentor Issues

[Flyman141]

Let me premise this with the fact that I am no longer a part of this team, as I have graduated, but I am a mentor contact for the team.

The team that I was a part of is experiencing a lot of difficulty after or head mentor and only teacher contact with our school decided to stop doing FRC entirely and wash her hands of the team. She encouraged the students and parents to continue if they wanted, and so they did. She took herself off of the mentor contact list and (with administrative approval from the school) gave a parent the lead mentor contact position.

The problem that we are running into now is that this teacher, who is no longer affiliated with the team, is claiming that everything the team owned, including tools and banners and all previous robots and parts belongs to the school's engineering and robotics department, which is essentially her department. Can she do this, or do the things purchased by a team that is affiliated with a school department still belong to the team after it is no longer affiliated with that department (we are still affiliated with the school itself)?

Please, we need advice on how to keep ownership of our parts and tools. It's already hard enough trying to find a place to work now that she won't let the team use "her" lab to work in (the school built that lab because the team needed a place to work in, though it still technically belongs to her department). And we're losing some corporate sponsors because of their concerns with us not working on campus, so we can't afford to buy brand new electronics and motors and tools.

[GeeTwo]

I would start with the school administration. Bring whatever documentation you can to show that the team equipment was purchased with funds raised by the team. Bring a list of items. Start your list with things that are most obviously purchased for/by the team, such as the control system, work your way down through other FRC-specific parts, then tools and more generic stock, and be ready to declare victory and move on if you get partway down the list. If you can't find a school or school board administrator who agrees to your side of the case, your only avenue is probably through legal action, which is likely to cost more than its worth, and is certain to be inconclusive in time for build season, in any event.

[GreyingJay]

Sorry to hear about your struggles. The language you used ("wash her hands of the team") and the delayed timing of this revelation ("the problem we are running into now") suggest that this teacher didn't leave on good terms with the team. Without knowing the politics of the situation, perhaps someone can have a long chat with this teacher to find out what the issues really are and if there's any way to resolve them amicably?

Because the other step is legal or administrative as GeeTwo indicated and that's not likely going to end well if the two sides are fighting with each other.

Team 2706 started this year because the lead teacher of our previous team decided he needed a break from FRC due to all his other commitments. He too encouraged the students and parents to continue and start a new community based team, which we did. The difference is that he was very up front with us about the status of the tools and equipment - they were purchased when the team was run by the school, with money from sponsors that was technically written out to the school - therefore everything was the property of the school. We were lucky that one of our RoboRio control systems was purchased by a mentor and technically his own property. Beyond that, we ventured out on our own. But we've had all year to prepare in advance.

We partnered with our local library for meeting space during the pre-season, and a local community center will host us for build season. How do you build robots in a library? Well, quietly We used the time mostly to train students in software, design, business, electrical controls mounted on a plywood board, and "hand tools only" fabrication of COTS kits like a Kit of Parts drive frame that we borrowed from another team.

We started from zero as far as parts and materials goes, but the unexpected plus side of being a community team seems to be that we have attracted a LOT of parent and university student mentors. Mentors have offered to donate or lend tools and materials of all kinds (including the aforementioned RoboRio), so we should have all the basics for build season. Do we have a mill or lathe like we did at the old high school shop? No. But we will get by without. No custom 6-CIM gearbox this year. But that's OK.

I hope your situation is resolved amicably. But I would, on the side, start asking "what will we do if we don't win this?" and think about alternate plans - could you borrow enough tools from your mentor base to get by this year?

[Jimmy Nichols]

I hope things are able to get cleared up. I agree with the approaches outlined above.

When we separated from the school, our admins took the stance that anything purchased through money donated to the school for the team was team property and left with the team. But I know every school system and administration is different. I hope you have the same luck we had and the school decides in your favor.

[Steven Smith]

Sent you a PM. Let's discuss the details and what options might be available to you.

[sanddrag]

This trend of teams separating from schools because the schools do not share their vision is just idiotic and it needs to change. Schools need to wise up about FIRST and learn how to make it work for them. If anyone at FIRST HQ is listening, you guys are not doing yourselves a favor by maintaining such a separation from education.

To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I with you success in your endeavors, whatever the outcome of this circumstance may be.

[wireties]

Good luck with the transition, it sounds like it may be difficult. Are you no longer associated with the school? Or just with this teacher?

I cannot answer for your school. But if that happened in our district everything bought or donated would belong to the district. And not just the tools but the balance in the bank account (if it is school-related and not an incorporated booster club) also! Whether or not the items and monies "belong" to a specific class or department would be up to the principal. The principal allocates assets but the district owns assets - hope that makes sense.

I would approach the principal with a simple plan to share the tools and resources between the old teacher and the club. Be professional and be nice. If you have another teacher or a prominent member of the local community, preferably a sponsor, involved that will help. I feel sure the principal can do anything he/she wants and that no teacher or department "owns" anything - that would be unusual.

Good Luck!

[JesseK]

I think the above points are probably the best way forward for the OP's specific situation. I agree that usually the school tries to maintain complete control of assets created by money donated to the school. It seems to be borne from the desire to maintain control of something "just in case" rather than any vision for what to do with what's kept.

A tangent -

Money, space, and time (in the building for 6 solid weeks, and out of school time for March/April) are the 3 major sources of contention between public schools' administration and their FRC teams. Money is solvable, but space and time are not in FRC's current format. I wonder if removing the bag and tag requirement would alleviate some of the pressure for being in the building during a specific window, thereby giving more flexibility to the average team in a public schools. This assumes we set aside the other pros/cons for bag-n-tag.

[FrankJ]

That is a common attitude for schools. Not completely unfounded at least from their point of view. With public schools, this is often governed by district policy and not in control of the school. One thing to look at is were did the money come from to purchase the equipment. One of the teams we work with had a similar issue. It took a visit from the team sponsor (major corporation not to be named) to get the school to release the equipment and only then to another non profit, not directly to the team.

Maybe as a compromise ask for the FRC specific stuff?

[MrBasse]

Who paid the initial registration fee? If it was the school/her program, you're out of luck. If it was the team that fundraised and earned the money that purchased the parts and registration, you have some ground to stand on. But either way it will be a favor to the team to get things back and not a requirement for the school to do so. Even if the school holds the parts, they would have to justify why it would go to her classroom rather than to a school sanctioned group that has direct need of the items in question.

I'm really not a fan of the "run to the administration immediately" tactic. It reminds me of 2nd grade when the best solution was to go tell on the kid that was mean to you. Try having a sit down meeting with the teacher and a sponsor and voice your opinions in a professional way that is respectful. You don't want to win this fight by making enemies. Think about the fact that the school will still have a relationship with the team even if that teacher doesn't. I am all to aware of the fact that once you step on a teacher's toes, their department and the one next door will generally not be too friendly with favors in the future (think absences, homework make ups, and test make ups for missing class in March and April).

I know that if I was to have to cut ties with my team, maybe my wife will finally win that fight with me, I would appreciate a conversation rather than my boss sending me an angry email. Even if your relationship with the past coach isn't strong right now, it sounds like the kind of person that you might want some help/favors from in the future considering her department.

[gblake]

This is an opportunity to built an excellent KOP robot???

Remember that even though the robot is pretty neat, it's not about the robot.

Blake
PS: Don't forget to beg some nearby teams for spare parts. Surely someone close to you can decide to only build one practice bot this year instead of two.

[piersklein]

It would seem to me that you are still affiliated with the school but not with the head of the science/engineering department. Given that the administration had to approve a parent as lead contact, I think that the school is in charge of the team. If this is the case then there is very little chance that the teacher is able to actually prevent you from using the tools and space. In every district, the use of buildings is under control of administration and School Committees rather than individual teachers. I would suggest having a meeting first with the principal of the school (and the superintendent if you wish) and explaining the situation and what you want to do to best benefit the team and by extension the students. Afterwards, ask for a meeting with the principal and the teacher with the goal of coming to a solution that is beneficial to the students.

I do disagree with some others in this thread about what is appropriate. In my opinion, you have a teacher who is intentionally and blatantly harming the educational opportunities of the students and because this teacher is in a position of power, nothing can be done without the administration. The school principal and superintendent do need to know that there are students in their school who want to further their education and are being prevented by the whims of a teacher.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by piersklein

I do disagree with some others in this thread about what is appropriate. In my opinion, you have a teacher who is intentionally and blatantly harming the educational opportunities of the students and because this teacher is in a position of power, nothing can be done without the administration. The school principal and superintendent do need to know that there are students in their school who want to further their education and are being prevented by the whims of a teacher.

We can make assumptions based on clues in the message but we don't know the full story here.

But I think that whatever happens, the team should prepare for a fallback plan that involves meeting in (any) plain ol' classroom, to build a kit of parts robot with basic hand tools that could be supplied by students, parents, and mentors.

Hope for the best, of course, but plan for the worst...

[Flyman141]

Thank you all for your help, and sorry if I haven't been active on this thread much. Finals, haha.

To clear up some things, the school is still %100 supporting us, but we don't have a teacher who is willing to stay on campus with us for the long hours, so we have gotten permission to work off-campus and still be considered a school team. We do have a booster club that is a 501(c)(3) organization, though I do not know how much of the stuff they themselves purchased.

From the way it sounds, it's all up to the administration because a lot of the money was donated to the school and department, but we are still a part of the school and department so they have the ability to move those assets to us. Regardless, this team will carry on. The kids have an unbreakable spirit, and we've faced worse situations before. Thank you all for your support and advice.

[chapman1]

Our team operates under the auspices of our school, but none of our mentors are school personnel. It seems that if your school administration is behind the idea of having a school-affiliated team, then it should be a non-problem: if school team, then school property = team property. Spend time with school board members and sell them on the idea if you have to.