pic: It's so dense every wire has so much going on

[BumblingBuilder]

Originally Posted by ClockworkGold

Yes. We also remembered who to pick for alliace selections

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nichols

Obviously we do not know the game rules for this year, but 1 rule that probably won't change is that all breakers and the PDP must be easily visible to inspectors. In addition their are diagnostic lights on the PDP that you would not have access too.

I don't see your Circuit breaker either, which needs to be accessible.

Everything that Jimmy has said and more.
Inspectors need to see the breakers, the wires that they feed and the color codes used. The terminals must be rated for current that exceeds the protected current for that branch (i.e. rated for 40 amps minimum when branch is protected by a 40 amp breaker). You may need to show data for those terminals during inspection.
From 2015 rules (unlikely to change much)
R40 All non-SIGNAL LEVEL wiring with a constant polarity (i.e., except for outputs of relay modules, motor controllers, or sensors) shall be color-coded along their entire length (from the manufacturer) as follows:
A. Red, yellow, white, brown, or black-with-stripe on the positive (e.g. +24VDC, +12VDC, +5VDC, etc.) connections
B. Black or blue for the common or negative side (-) of the connections.
I agree with Gary that heat is a bad thing especially when under the RoboRio.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Everything that Jimmy has said and more.

I'll raise again. Hidden wires are hidden problems. Unless your wires are always perfect every time (and with teenagers, really?), making wires harder to trace will cost you time in troubleshooting when you most need it (e.g. between matches that are only a few minutes apart). Even though we had no power wire faults on last year's robot, and no faults at all at competition (though we did have a few signal level issues on the build site), we still plan to route wires cleanly and visibly upon removal of a couple of clip-on cable run covers.

[Mason_Korkowski]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Everything that Jimmy has said and more.
Inspectors need to see the breakers, the wires that they feed and the color codes used. The terminals must be rated for current that exceeds the protected current for that branch (i.e. rated for 40 amps minimum when branch is protected by a 40 amp breaker). You may need to show data for those terminals during inspection.
From 2015 rules (unlikely to change much)
R40 All non-SIGNAL LEVEL wiring with a constant polarity (i.e., except for outputs of relay modules, motor controllers, or sensors) shall be color-coded along their entire length (from the manufacturer) as follows:
A. Red, yellow, white, brown, or black-with-stripe on the positive (e.g. +24VDC, +12VDC, +5VDC, etc.) connections
B. Black or blue for the common or negative side (-) of the connections.
I agree with Gary that heat is a bad thing especially when under the RoboRio.

I am wondering, do the breakers need to be visible just for inspection or for the length of the tournament? Also The same question about the PDP indicator lights. As far as the 2 layer panel is it meant that positive wires should be red and ground should be black, or do the wires have to each be different colors (ex. VRM to PDP is yellow and black, PCM to PDP is red and black?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mason_Korkowski

I am wondering, do the breakers need to be visible just for inspection or for the length of the tournament? Also The same question about the PDP indicator lights.

For inspection, which may happen at any time. Inspectors can reinspect any team at any time for any reason (though most will only inspect for a good reason, like someone asking them if some new addition is legal).

However, having the PDP lights visible can be very useful to event staff--and your team members--trying to figure out why your robot isn't working. It's also very useful to not have to tear apart the electrical panel to see the lights.

As far as the 2 layer panel is it meant that positive wires should be red and ground should be black, or do the wires have to each be different colors (ex. VRM to PDP is yellow and black, PCM to PDP is red and black?

There is no specific instruction that all wires have a certain coloring--but follow the Manual on those wires. See Al's post. Also, it'll make inspection easier if only two colors are used (means your inspector doesn't have to read the rule to verify that your semi-random color is legal)

[Mason_Korkowski]

Originally Posted by EricH

For inspection, which may happen at any time. Inspectors can reinspect any team at any time for any reason (though most will only inspect for a good reason, like someone asking them if some new addition is legal).

However, having the PDP lights visible can be very useful to event staff--and your team members--trying to figure out why your robot isn't working. It's also very useful to not have to tear apart the electrical panel to see the lights.


There is no specific instruction that all wires have a certain coloring--but follow the Manual on those wires. See Al's post. Also, it'll make inspection easier if only two colors are used (means your inspector doesn't have to read the rule to verify that your semi-random color is legal)

OK thanks for clearing that up.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Mason_Korkowski

... As far as the 2 layer panel is it meant that positive wires should be red and ground should be black, or do the wires have to each be different colors (ex. VRM to PDP is yellow and black, PCM to PDP is red and black?

The only mandatory insulation colors (for recent years) are non-signal level (that is, power) wires with a fixed polarity. In 2015, the appropriate rule was:

Originally Posted by 2015 Manual, Rule R40

All non-SIGNAL LEVEL wiring with a constant polarity (i.e., except for outputs of relay modules, motor controllers, or sensors)
shall be color-coded along their entire length (from the manufacturer) as follows:

• A. Red, yellow, white, brown, or black-with-stripe on the positive (e.g. +24VDC, +12VDC, +5VDC, etc.) connections
• B. Black or blue for the common or negative side (-) of the connections.

Wires that are originally attached to legal devices are considered part of the device and by default legal. Such wires are exempt from R40.

This means that wires coming out of the motor controllers do not have to follow the color code. On 3946, we extended this color code to include signal-level wires; anything which was always at a given voltage had one of the colors indicated above (perhaps this is what was meant, but the rules aren't clear). We considered different colors for 5V vs 12V (we had no 24V), but economics got in the way. We also made extensive use of the 3M colored marking tape (uses the resistor color code). We placed strips of this tape in a given color (or pair of colors when necessary) at every location involved in controlling a single actuator. For example, we had a strip of purple tape on the roboRIO near the PWM port, at both ends of the PWM cable, on the motor controller, on the motor, and on the wires on both sides of the anderson power poles between the controllers and the motors for a given motor, and even on the PDP connectors and the power wires leading to the motor controller. And the word "purple" was also in a comment in the source code where the PWM port number was defined, for good measure. This greatly simplifies trouble shooting. The bottom line is that color codes go way beyond the game rules; it is always helpful to label and document everything that you reasonably can.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

We train Robot Inspectors to help you troubleshoot as do the FTAs and other volunteers. Meet us halfway and make it easy for us to help you. If we can see indicators of trouble while you are driving or just sitting, we may be able to focus on what conditions may be causing problems. We want you to play in every match and we can only help you meet that goal if we can tell what is going on.
Hiding breakers/PDP, radio, RoboRio will not get you to that goal either. BTW, mounting electrical upside down doesn't help either of us. As unlikely as it may seem, breakers do loosen up and fall out, and your drive system will scrape up debris off the floor that will take out important parts of your electrical system.
A guideline for us (WildStang) is this... Can you replace that device between matches on Einstein? That is where your design will be judged, by you.



Taking questions in just three weeks. Get some sleep while you can.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

A guideline for us (WildStang) is this... Can you replace that device between matches on Einstein? That is where your design will be judged, by you.

Stepping this down to mid-level teams - what if you make finals at your local regional or district event? We ranked #42 at Bayou last year, got picked as the next-to-last selection, ended up on the winning alliance, and went to CMP. This was easily the most robust robot we ever built, but we're raising the importance of repair/replacement even higher this year. Be ready to survive finals at your local events if you want to have a chance to move on to CMP!

[Sperkowsky]

To further elaborate. At a local off season event we were out for 3 Matches due to a radio Being broken. We would have probably been out the whole day if we couldn't see the radio and diagnose issues.

We are connecting our electrical up this year with multi color APP's.

We want to be able to replace any component in 2 minutes.