GRIZZLY TOOLS

[EricH]

At this point, I would rate your tool needs as:

1) Chop saw--could use a horizontal bandsaw instead, but a chop saw is easier to use/maintain.
2) Hand drills (emphasis on plural)
3) Plenty of drill bits
4) Other hand tools (hex keys, screwdrivers, files, stuff like that).

Unless, of course, you already have those.

Future: Everything else. Right now, you do NOT have the time to learn the more complicated items. Call that "after build season", unless you absolutely have to spend the money right now right now. If you do, you should stow the items safely until they're needed (read: after build season).

And when you do expand, I would put the order as:
1) Drill press
2) Bandsaw
3) Welder
4a) Lathe
4b) Mill

There's some debate as to whether a mill or lathe is better; I lean towards lathe. Drill press and bandsaw are easier to learn, though, and faster to set up; they come first. The welder has more utility as far as fabricating frames and supports.

I have no experience with Grizzly tools myself that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that brand. For a mill, though, if you can get a Bridgeport, do it.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by EricH

At this point, I would rate your tool needs as:

1) Chop saw--could use a horizontal bandsaw instead, but a chop saw is easier to use/maintain.
2) Hand drills (emphasis on plural)
3) Plenty of drill bits
4) Other hand tools (hex keys, screwdrivers, files, stuff like that).

Unless, of course, you already have those.

Future: Everything else. Right now, you do NOT have the time to learn the more complicated items. Call that "after build season", unless you absolutely have to spend the money right now right now. If you do, you should stow the items safely until they're needed (read: after build season).

And when you do expand, I would put the order as:
1) Drill press
2) Bandsaw
3) Welder
4a) Lathe
4b) Mill

There's some debate as to whether a mill or lathe is better; I lean towards lathe. Drill press and bandsaw are easier to learn, though, and faster to set up; they come first. The welder has more utility as far as fabricating frames and supports.

I have no experience with Grizzly tools myself that I'm aware of, so I can't comment on that brand. For a mill, though, if you can get a Bridgeport, do it.

Now that EricH did it, I will expand further:

1. Chop-Saw - I would get an Evolution Rage2 Cold Saw (with a replacement blade). A horse of a machine and it cuts everything. At least everything that we have thrown at it.

2. Drills - Milwaukee M18 Drill and Driver Combo. We now have a few of these sets and they are incredible. I have never had problems with Milwaukee - and their customer service reviews are impeccable.

3. Drill Bits. Get a lot and buy in bulk from a local welding supplier. 1/8", 3/16" 1/4", 3/8" in bulk (6-12 each). You will also want to purchase a few 1/2". Also purchase 3/4", 1", and 1.25" if the budget allows.
*
Get a 1.125" stepper bit from Automation Direct for free - see your FRC TIMS account for info (pay $6 for shipping) - this is a life saver if you have a great vice and drill press - or a mill. And then a #7 jobber bit for tapping 1/4-20.

4. Hand tools - Get a full set of ratchets.
For box wrenches, Gearwrench is suffice. Get a full set of SAE and Metric. And then purchase a few more 11mm and 7/16" wrenches.
Get a grip of Allen/Hex tools.
And couple sets of screwdrivers.
Files. Get a good set from Nicholson. Not kidding.


Once your team is settled -
-Drill Press (we have 2 JETs, 2 Deltas, and 1 Toolshop)
-Bandsaw (We have a Rockport)
-Lathe (so many to choose from)
-Mill (Bridgeport if you can)

That is all for now...

[Mr V]

My pld team has the next larger lathe the G0752 that was purchased back in 2007 I believe. Two years ago the rack and drive gear to manually move the carriage wore out in the relevant range. Looked up the parts online, ordered them and had them in a couple of days.

So I can't knock their service but I'd say that in our case they had the parts in stock in their warehouse.

As others have mentioned tools used by students get treated pretty roughly and ours certainly was. So I put a lot of the blame for the failure on that and wouldn't rule out another Grizzly tool because of that.

[DaveL]

Given that you are down to the wire:
I would get a cheap band saw. It can cut 1" and 2" aluminum stock much faster than a hack saw. Plus it can be used to cut 2x4's, plywood and sheet aluminum. Ours came from Home Depot as a donation! Currently priced at $130.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Har...tialmax&NCNI-5

Granted it only has a 9" throat and a 1/3 hp motor, but for the price it works great. Its 4 1/2 years old.
I would buy a band saw over a chop saw as it can cut tube and plate stock.

Our drill press is from Lowes.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_78742-46069-...tt=drill+press
A little pricy at $320 list, but they gave as a nice discount.
Having a floor standing model allows us to use large bits and to change the table angle. Its 1/3 hp motor is on the weak side for larger bits, but it too has held up for 4 1/2 years.

But for all around time savings, you can’t go wrong with a belt sander.
Ours has a 1/3 hp motor. Its been caked up with aluminum dust and still running fine.
Sears just lowered the price. Its now $102!
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-3-h...2&blockType=G2

More power would be nice and Sears has a new one with a 1/2 hp motor.http://www.sears.com/rikon-4inch-x-3...cPara=159_4555

If you really want a chop saw, why not get one that can accurately cut a variety of angles?
We have a 12” Dewalt saw. We added a metal cutting blade to cut wood and Aluminum.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_122210-70-DW...Ntt=dewalt+saw

Dave

[pmangels17]

One additional point on the hand drills, if you have a choice between 3/8" and 1/2" chucks, go with the larger of the two. It will let you accommodate more tooling, and also in a pinch you can use it to drive 1/2" shaft on early prototype mechanisms (not all mechanisms can be powered by a hand drill, and a hand drill will not necessarily be a good representative of the sorts of power solutions you can use, but if you have a shaft and all you need to do is turn in, without much time to rig something up, a drill can be a good option).

[sanddrag]

I'm going to downvote the Rage Evolution 2 for FRC use. We have one. It's excellent at cutting anything steel including box tube, unistrut, and angle. However, it's terrible for aluminum, especially solid bar stock. The blade is too slow, and the teeth clog pretty bad. My go-to saw for aluminum box tubing is a Dewalt 12" with a Fteud Diablo 80T blade.

[DaveL]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I'm going to downvote the Rage Evolution 2 for FRC use. We have one. It's excellent at cutting anything steel including box tube, unistrut, and angle. However, it's terrible for aluminum, especially solid bar stock. The blade is too slow, and the teeth clog pretty bad. My go-to saw for aluminum box tubing is a Dewalt 12" with a Fteud Diablo 80T blade.

Interesting. Having read the post about the Rage2, I was interested to try it. Thanks for the post. We are using a 12" 80 tooth, carbide blade. I'm not sure if its Lenox or this Dewalt (12", 80 teeth, carbide, $30);
http://www.lowes.com/pd_73714-70-DW3...r+sa w+blades

Found this blade at Home Depot. Is this the one? (12", 60 teeth, carbide, $108)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-12...60CF/206287397

Dave

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by DaveL

Interesting. Having read the post about the Rage2, I was interested to try it. Thanks for the post. We are using a 12" 80 tooth, carbide blade. I'm not sure if its Lenox or this Dewalt (12", 80 teeth, carbide, $30);
http://www.lowes.com/pd_73714-70-DW3...r+sa w+blades

Found this blade at Home Depot. Is this the one? (12", 60 teeth, carbide, $108)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-12...60CF/206287397

Dave

The Dewalt blade you linked is okay but the construction-grade carbide is not fantastic. A better Dewalt blade is the one with carbide teeth that are bare and not painted over.

This is the Freud Diablo blade we use
http://www.amazon.com/D1280X-Diablo-.../dp/B00008WQ35

Many cuts through aluminum and it still looks brand new.

We use a smaller one of similar type in a circular saw to cut aluminum plate.

[techhelpbb]

Recently acquired a nice Sieg X2 with the Hoss mods rigged for CNC.
Including the Hoss mill head freak swivel.

One caution with Chinese mills sometimes you need to clean up the ways a bit.
The existing owner had torn this down and modified every axis so I had no worries as the quality of his work showed it was fine.

The X2 as delivered stock might be on the small side so,
A nice size mill likely worth looking at is the RF45:
http://charteroakautomation.com/our-...nual-bed-mill/

That said there is something to be said for using a Shopbot style router table.
You get a larger working area and if mistakes are made typically you cut wood.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I'm going to downvote the Rage Evolution 2 for FRC use. We have one. It's excellent at cutting anything steel including box tube, unistrut, and angle. However, it's terrible for aluminum, especially solid bar stock. The blade is too slow, and the teeth clog pretty bad. My go-to saw for aluminum box tubing is a Dewalt 12" with a Fteud Diablo 80T blade.

Never tried solid stock over 3/4" but my Rage2 has not had this issue.
I agree it's a great saw for steel - cheaper than a proper cold saw but gets the job done.

[MrRoboSteve]

We had trouble using a 5000RPM cutoff saw with the Diablo blade, primarily around shorter cuts. I couldn't trust students to run it.

I was looking at the lower RPM Rage Evolution 2 as a replacement. Happily, we got a donation of a used Jet metal bandsaw (http://www.maxtool.com/jet-hvbs-7mw-...0v-1ph-414459?) and use that to make rough cuts, then finish them on our vertical bandsaw.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by pmangels17

One additional point on the hand drills, if you have a choice between 3/8" and 1/2" chucks, go with the larger of the two. It will let you accommodate more tooling, and also in a pinch you can use it to drive 1/2" shaft on early prototype mechanisms (not all mechanisms can be powered by a hand drill, and a hand drill will not necessarily be a good representative of the sorts of power solutions you can use, but if you have a shaft and all you need to do is turn in, without much time to rig something up, a drill can be a good option).

You could just chuck up a 1/2" socket into the drill, or a 1/2" nut driver. You could fit either of those into a 3/8" chuck. Granted it's one or two more pieces to buy/lose.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by SciBorg Dave

We are in the process of building a high school robotics lab(rookie team 5920). We are looking at buying a lathe, mill, band saw and some other tools for the lab. My question to the FIRST community are there any teams using Grizzly products and how do you like them? The price is of some importance.

PM me and I would be more than willing to talk via phone or Google Hangouts in order to help you come up with a plan for your many many Lathe/Mill/CNC/Heavy Power Tool choices.

I have racked up a LOT of experience with used machines and your common cheaper new machines and would love to help you come to a well educated decision on the issue!

[pmangels17]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

You could just chuck up a 1/2" socket into the drill, or a 1/2" nut driver. You could fit either of those into a 3/8" chuck. Granted it's one or two more pieces to buy/lose.

That works well enough for hex shaft, but if you're working with round stock not so much. Also, more importantly, it's nice to be able to use any drill bit up to 1/2" without worry, instead of needing to find one with a smaller diameter shank. There are plenty of 1/2" chuck drills available for prices as reasonable as comparable 3/8" chuck drills. However, if you find a 3/8" chuck drill that you love and have to have in the shop, it isn't the end of the world.

More important than the chuck is buying a few drills (and any other cordless tools you might want or one day want) within the same manufacturer and battery system (like the Craftsman C3 line, or another brand's equivalent) and then investing in extra batteries and chargers so you never have to wait to charge a too and can swap stuff around. This is something where a little research before purchase is required, and you have to fit it to your team's needs, goals, and budget. Getting a few cordless hand drills is almost a must, buy at least as many drills as you have concurrent projects going on so nobody has to wait on a tool to get stuff done.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by pmangels17

That works well enough for hex shaft, but if you're working with round stock not so much.

True, yes sorry I was thinking about hex shaft because that's what we used, and coincidentally earlier in the day I was at a hardware store shopping for nut driver bits so that was very much on my brain.

Originally Posted by pmangels17

More important than the chuck is buying a few drills (and any other cordless tools you might want or one day want) within the same manufacturer and battery system (like the Craftsman C3 line, or another brand's equivalent) and then investing in extra batteries and chargers so you never have to wait to charge a too and can swap stuff around. This is something where a little research before purchase is required, and you have to fit it to your team's needs, goals, and budget. Getting a few cordless hand drills is almost a must, buy at least as many drills as you have concurrent projects going on so nobody has to wait on a tool to get stuff done.

Good advice, and I can chime in here based on years of home woodworking experience: Definitely invest in a system that will be well supported. For example, here in Canada we have a chain store called Canadian Tire, their house brand is Mastercraft. They sell cordless tools. They sell cordless tools systems that interchange batteries. However, I've been burned at least twice because they like to discontinue them in favour of the latest and greatest. Batteries ARE a consumable, and eventually disposable item. When you can't buy new batteries for your cordless tools, they will become worthless. For this reason I will never buy a Mastercraft cordless tool again.

If budget allows, buy a contractor brand. Get Milwaukee or Makita or Dewalt. Ryobi is good if you're on a budget. Contractors buy brands that have life cycles in years, not months. Stick to the same series (e.g. DeWalt 20v Max) so you can reuse batteries and chargers.

Don't buy the no-name special at Walmart or Harbor Freight because you may never see it again. Sure you can just keep buying more of them but then you have to deal with "Which of these chargers fits this battery? Which of these batteries works with my tool?" nonsense.

[philso]

Good training and only allowing the equipment to be used by those who have the training and who show they don't abuse the equipment might delay the onset of "campification".

Originally Posted by sanddrag

... We swapped out the motor with a much better one from Harbor Freight ...

I never thought that I would see those words together