What makes FRC a sport?

[cmrnpizzo14]

copying what I said in another post.....


Woo! My time to shine!

About me: I am currently a division one rower at a highly competitive university (top 5 in the US), studying mechanical engineering and computer science. I rowed all through high school while being on my school's FRC team. I was founding member of the FRC team, eventual captain and would like to consider myself one of the most dedicated people we had. I was also the captain of my rowing team.

I'll use a couple different standards of comparison here, I'll try my best to compare these without too much bias either way!

TIME:

Personally, my rowing team took more time in high school. I know that our FRC team did not meet as much as other teams. We only met Tuesday/Thursday for 3 hours each and then Saturday 9-5. Obviously during the end of the season it stepped up and we met more but generally my rowing team would practice 2.5 hours a day for 6 days a week.
Additionally, rowing was in season during the fall and the spring with offseason training in the winter while FRC only had regular meetings during winter and throughout our competition season.

EFFORT:

This one is pretty equivalent. I would say that rowing is much much more physically demanding while it requires very little mentally. Obviously robotics is the exact opposite here. I think that designing a system for the bot versus training towards a goal time isn't a very fair comparison here. One is a very long term goal that requires months of effort while another is a very short term but pretty stressful process. This one I can't confidently compare.

ATMOSPHERE:

To clarify here, this is just how the team feels. This one is definitely different. I think that both teams are close. I had best friends on both of my teams in high school. I would have to say that my rowing team as a whole might have been a little bit closer but that would just have come from spending more time together. Additionally, the sports team bond is actually kind of close to what is depicted in movies. You all share in the misery of training and losing and the euphoria of winning. At times this feels stronger than that on an FRC team because training is putting yourself through quite a bit of physical pain where as the design process is (in my opinion) still pretty fun regardless of the outcome! I think that I would have to sum up my relationship with my FRC teammates as being slightly more on the professional side where as I might have actually been closer with my rowing friends.

Summary: I would say about equal in all things except time! This will vary team to team but in my experience my sport took more time.



EDIT: Looking at the post that started this discussion again... you're high school swim team practices 25 hours a week?? That seems a little exaggerated to me. Also the reason that practices aren't longer is it physically is not beneficial past a point. What good is a football team that can't walk onto the field because they have beat themselves up too much in practice. Even weight training before Junior or Senior year of high school can be very detrimental to an athlete. No one has ever injured themselves by thinking too much about their robot.

[GeeTwo]

Louisiana is the "Sportsman's Paradise" - says so on our license plates. So hunting and fishing are sports, to some at least. Opening a few dictionaries and web sites and trawling through the previous posts, it seems that an activity being a sport includes some number of the following attributes (which ones vary by individual, of course). Personally, I think that any list that does not include baseball and tennis is right out, but some people insist on full body contact. Much like PAR_WIG1350 posted four years ago (#22), I understand "sport" to be like "jazz" - I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. This list is not necessarily complete, but I tried to think of all I've read and seen:

• Competition
  • Teams
  • Interaction between the competitors
  • Requires a combination of skill, practice, and luck
  • Formal rules
• Athleticism
  • Physical activity
  • Extreme physical exertion
  • Physical fatigue
  • Contact
    • Full Body Contact
    • Possibility of Injury
  • Dedication "above and beyond"
• Strategy
  • "Game Plans"
  • "Adjustments"
  • "Fluid Strategies" - the possibility for new strategies to displace the tried-and-true
  • Taking calculated/considered risks
• Spectators (who are not competitors or family/friends, especially if revenue is generated)
• Sportsmanship (grace in competition, victory, and defeat)
• Motivation: Pursued for pleasure or exercise

The bottom line is that unless you decide that a "sport" includes one (or more) of these attributes:

• Extreme physical exertion of a human as opposed to a "built athlete" (and in some cases this is in question, esp. with the HP)
• Contact/Full Body Contact of humans
• Spectators (paying, or at least who are not competing, nor their family and friends)

FRC qualifies. I haven't crunched the numbers, but I'll bet a steak dinner that a majority of Olympic events (both winter and summer) fail at least three of these tests (first entry that disproves this only).

[bobjones227]

Originally Posted by logank013

It wasn't aggressive. So do you consider yourself an athlete. I can accept if people call FRC a sport, but I won't consider anyone besides the drive team as athletes. And I'm in a similar situation to you as I'm basically the team's Head strategist.

I don't consider myself as an athlete in the physical way. Team members really aren't "athletes" if we're only regarding the physical side of sports. But many teams do put in the dedication that many athletes put into their own sport. I do agree that the drive team should definitely be thought of as athletes, as they do a great deal before and during competitions, especially when matches are close together. The other team members are what I consider the supporters of the team, as they provide many key roles, whether they cheer in the stands or repair the robot down in the pits. Even the people in the stands are taking data on all the matches that go on. But yes, I would not go as far as to call all people in FRC "athletes." I can see why some people would do to the competition of the games and teamwork required, but that's the only real qualifications that FRC has, unless I'm not seeing any more that are out there.

[bobjones227]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

copying what I said in another post.....


I would say that rowing is much much more physically demanding while it requires very little mentally.

I myself row, and I personally find that you have to be mentally strong to keep rowing during a race or hard workout. It takes a lot to push yourself to your full potential, even after you've rowed 1500m, and you're arms feel like jelly, and your legs ache. It just takes mental strength to completely zone in on the race, and to continue pushing yourself, in my opinion.

[Sperkowsky]

I should keep a drive doc with standard responses for these recurring threads.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by bobjones227

I myself row, and I personally find that you have to be mentally strong to keep rowing during a race or hard workout. It takes a lot to push yourself to your full potential, even after you've rowed 1500m, and you're arms feel like jelly, and your legs ache. It just takes mental strength to completely zone in on the race, and to continue pushing yourself, in my opinion.

I think of it as being a different type of mental exertion. I consider the mental exertion in rowing to be more of an exercise in "how little can you think?" or "how much can you ignore what's happening around you?" where as FIRST is much more of a standard mental exertion where you are trying to create things within your mind.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

I think of it as being a different type of mental exertion. I consider the mental exertion in rowing to be more of an exercise in "how little can you think?" or "how much can you ignore what's happening around you?" where as FIRST is much more of a standard mental exertion where you are trying to create things within your mind.

pushing past physical limitations through mental exertion I would argue is much more difficult then your saying it is. Its very hard to overcome your bodie's instincts. Takes a lot of practice.

That being said, Creative exertion is just as difficult. They are just two different sides of the same coin. Both equally taxing on your mind when pushing your limits.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

pushing past physical limitations through mental exertion I would argue is much more difficult then your saying it is. Its very hard to overcome your bodie's instincts. Takes a lot of practice.

That being said, Creative exertion is just as difficult. They are just two different sides of the same coin. Both equally taxing on your mind when pushing your limits.

Having done a lot of both, it just seems different. With pushing past physical limitations, the key is to never let yourself slip up and allow yourself to quit. Once you do that, it's almost impossible to push past that point again. With design, it's the same struggle of never letting yourself get pigeon-holed or too attached to your idea at any stage. If you can't separate yourself from your idea, then you will never look at it honestly and logically during evaluations.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14

Having done a lot of both, it just seems different. With pushing past physical limitations, the key is to never let yourself slip up and allow yourself to quit. Once you do that, it's almost impossible to push past that point again. With design, it's the same struggle of never letting yourself get pigeon-holed or too attached to your idea at any stage. If you can't separate yourself from your idea, then you will never look at it honestly and logically during evaluations.

Absolutely, that's what I mean by two sides of the same coin. They are different. But both are equally difficult.