FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion

[EricH]

Originally Posted by picklecrackers

Has anyone found anything regarding how the boulders must be rolled into the secret passages? Do they have to be entered using a bowling-type fashion?

You'll notice a "drop box" above the chutes they roll through...

[greekfire100]

What are the perks of having a spy on the other side of the map? I'm curious to know.

[Sasha_Nut]

Originally Posted by Cam877

In regards to defense selection, do you select the defenses that you have to traverse, or do you select the defenses your opponent has to traverse?

You select the defenses that your opponents have to traverse.

[natejo99]

I've noticed the game seems to contain many small elements from past games. Climbing similar to 2013, the Rock Wall and the Cheval de Frise seem similar to 2012, etc. Do you think this will present a significant disadvantage to newer teams who didn't need to overcome those obstacles in previous games?

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by picklecrackers

Has anyone found anything regarding how the boulders must be rolled into the secret passages? Do they have to be entered using a bowling-type fashion?

Take note of G4, G33, and the diagrams in section 2.2.3.1 (Section 2, page 15).

[picklecrackers]

Originally Posted by EricH

You'll notice a "drop box" above the chutes they roll through...

Are you saying that the drop box is the only alternative to using a bowling-motion with the embrasures?

[endreman0]

The abundance of robot demo videos should negate this problem.

[medofbr]

the rule just say that they have to enter through one of the 3 holes in the hp station (G33), so pushing kicking the boulder through a bottom hole may be allowed as long as you do not put your hand/foot through.

[Fletch1373]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar was the most complex I saw in my years with FIRST.

My rookie year, can confirm!

[alopex_rex]

Originally Posted by medofbr

the rule just say that they have to enter through one of the 3 holes in the hp station (G33), so pushing kicking the boulder through a bottom hole may be allowed as long as you do not put your hand/foot through.

At the kickoff I attended, they had 2/3 of a field set up, and I saw someone trying to kick a boulder through the HP station all the way to the opposite courtyard. He couldn't get it to go under the low bar, but he did get it over the ramparts, which were positioned next to the low bar.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by greekfire100

What are the perks of having a spy on the other side of the map? I'm curious to know.

The perks of having a Human Player spy is that they have a better view of the other side of the field.

One benefit of having a Spy Bot is for bots that cannot cross the defenses. At least they can shoot, and later on help capture the castle.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

I like the game, just hope the FMS/refs can keep up with it...

Ref's don't have to count boulders, there are sensors for that.

Ref's have to watch:
1) Robots crossing defenses.
2) Robots tossing balls at the wrong time
3) Robot interaction
4) Human players (spy, boulder person)
5) Capture castle at the end

Seems pretty manageable to me.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by MikLast

For rule G22, would it be considered pinning if a robot was to inhibit forward motion while the opposing robot was in an defense?

For example, if the opposing robot was trying to move past one of the barriers and blocked forward motion into our side, would that be considered pinning?

That would be a G43 foul, not a G22 foul.

[Mikyway]

Would it be possible and viable to just have your robot stand in front of the human player station and launch boulders into the tower like some teams did with the frisbees in Ultimate Ascent

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by Chris Endres

Oh god.

I was really liking this game, even if it's corny I found it interesting. I like that they've left options to adapt the game to higher levels of play. I like the "low bar" idea, as it gives toasters something to contribute in a game where they otherwise couldn't do much (though I would like to see someone make a robot that can fit under the portcullis without raising it). I like the batter cleats, as they could serve a dual purpose as a very easy alignment tool for shooting. Oh, and hooray for the return of frame perimeter!

BUT...

• I read the words "audience selection" and I died inside... seriously, who thought of this horribly imbalanced way of deciding the outcome of a game. Especially at smaller events (looking at you, districts) It's a pretty easy way for big teams to leverage their size to shift a match in their favor, either by picking a defense their team can score in, or picking a defense that other teams can't score in. How much of an effect will this have for the first few weeks, and at lower levels of play? Probably none. However, at high levels of play, it could have an effect.
• By the looks of it, slot 3 and 4 are good places to put the portcullis to really screw with tower vision. Another potential easy way for large teams to cripple smaller (or quieter) teams. I don't mean to rail on big teams, I'm from one, but the audience selected defense is so easily exploited, that it just isn't fair under certain conditions.
• The complexity of this field is just screaming "field fault." Any team looking to ensure that they don't get screwed by improper field setup should keep copies of their requested defense configurations. Someone please tell me that it's designed so that you can't put the Category C structures in backwards. It might sound silly, but I'd bet my life that someone's gonna put the drawbridge in backwards at some point in week 1.
• The complexity of this field also means that it will be very difficult for most teams to have a complete set of practice field components.

Predictions about gameplay:

• Smart, strategic drivers and tiny robots will make terrifying opponents. A team with a good collector and good driver will put themselves in a whole new class of "map control" teams. Utilizing the many choke points on the field, pushing boulders through the low bar for allies, and completing a few barrier objectives will make the lives of shooter robots much easier, and teams who can consistently complete these tasks will be power picks, even if they don't put up many points alone.
• Captures will be MUCH more common in elims than breaches. This is because a breach requires robots to be able to get through the Portcullis/cheval de frise, as well as either the low bar or drawbridge/sally port. Any combination of these objectives is based entirely on the alliance's combined abilities, and most teams will scout to find what defenses certain teams struggle with.
• HPs will either figure out how to get the ball past the low bars, or get them to angle them into the neutral zone.
• The cheval de frise will be the most underutilized defense, throughout much of the season. The portcullis provides some utility as a vision block to drivers, although it is probably easier to get past than the cheval. Also, on that topic, spy usage will be limited for the first couple weeks, but will gain huge importance later in the season.
• There will be video of some team getting stuck on the rock wall before week 2.

The best alliances at the regional level, assuming the tower strength rules aren't changed, will include:
A pure shooting robot that can get over the easier barriers, possibly with climbing capabilities
A robot that can either shoot or herd into the low goal, that can also handle the more difficult barriers
A robot that can herd balls through the low bar

Originally Posted by Steven Donow

Just a safety reminder... https://youtu.be/moM5DadQSXM

This just... I... I don't think I've laughed this much at a Youtube video before.