FIRST STRONGHOLD Discussion

[alopex_rex]

My prediction is that, in practice, the audience selection will be as good as random. Of course, teams will still put lots of effort into figuring out which defense they ought to cheer for. Which is actually kind of neat, in that team members in the stands will feel like cheering is strategically important.

[IronicDeadBird]

First thought when I heard that we had an audience selected element was
"Great now we need to scout the audience too."
What I remember happening is I saw the field, and then I started hearing rules and at a certain point I went "Nah too many rules I'll just wait until I have a paper copy."
Even after getting the paper copy I said "nope waiting for Q+A"

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by Hasan333

i mean you cant score if you are touching the carpet....

G39: ROBOTS are prohibited from launching BOULDERS unless they are in contact with the opponent’s TOWER or carpet in the opponent’s COURTYARD, and not in contact with any other carpet.

[FRC Warrior]

Originally Posted by evanperryg

I recall seeing teams use those fiberglass rods in 2013 as alignment tools, and they could flex to fit under the pyramid. I don't know if they'd be flexible enough for this, though.

I was thinking more of a pole with springs at the bottom, when you go under the bar, it would flatten against your robot, but afterwards, it would come back up.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by GIrobotics

My team was thinking of using treads. Is there any place other than Andymark where we got get treads?

There is a thread on this, no good answers yet though http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=141201

[vigneshv]

Originally Posted by Mikyway

Would it be possible and viable to just have your robot stand in front of the human player station and launch boulders into the tower like some teams did with the frisbees in Ultimate Ascent

Nope, that would be against the rules. They state that you must meet the conditions of being in contact with the boulder through a defense as you move the boulder through. You cannot shoot over the defense.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Originally Posted by vigneshv

Nope, that would be against the rules. They state that you must meet the conditions of being in contact with the boulder through a defense as you move the boulder through. You cannot shoot over the defense.

Is this also valid for autonomous? Because that would make a 2-ball pretty impossible. (can't wait to see a team prove me wrong)

[tindleroot]

Originally Posted by MaGiC_PiKaChU

Is this also valid for autonomous? Because that would make a 2-ball pretty impossible. (can't wait to see a team prove me wrong)

If a rule is stated in the game manual without mention of time period limitations, then the rule is active for the duration of the match, including autonomous. The only way to possibly make a 2 ball auto would be to take your preloaded ball through the Outer Works, score it, go back to the neutral zone, pick up a ball (without going over the center line), go back through the Outer Works again and score it.

Difficult? Yes.
Impossible? No.
Worth it? Maybe only at the highest levels of play.
Will teams do it? I wouldn't be surprised.

[Darth Drew]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a team have their alliance partner drop a ball in the courtyard during autonomous which the first team could pickup and score. Obviously, the circumstances would have to be perfect, but stranger things have happened, especially during eliminations.

[erstech]

Originally Posted by evanperryg

Someone please tell me that it's designed so that you can't put the Category C structures in backwards. It might sound silly, but I'd bet my life that someone's gonna put the drawbridge in backwards at some point in week 1.

Good news on that front, if you take a look at the field drawings you'll see that the defenses are all on casters that slot into holes in the defense platforms. The arrangement of the casters will prevent any of the defenses from being installed backwards.

[tindleroot]

As for the cheering to determine the defense, I bet that most refs will select something that hasn't been used much if there is no noticeable difference in the cheering volume. Let's be honest, for the most part the cheering will be equally loud (or quiet) and the ref will just pick one.

[Koko Ed]

FIRST needs to come up with a cool name for the elite field setup crew who will be responsible for setting up the defenses.

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by erstech

Good news on that front, if you take a look at the field drawings you'll see that the defenses are all on casters that slot into holes in the defense platforms. The arrangement of the casters will prevent any of the defenses from being installed backwards.

Thank you based kamen

Anyway, the more I think about this game, the more I like it. The audience thing is silly, and the theme feels rather forced, but the concept behind the defenses is clever. Scouting this season doesn't just impact picks and strategies; it has an impact on the way the entire game is played, as opposed to how individual matches are played. The fact that the tower is adaptable to the highest levels of play is really nice, as this is a dynamic that has been missing from most FRC games. I like the way the defenses are organized, as they force you to have a challenge, while still providing a couple easier methods to cross. The options in each group (except D, kind of) feel meaningful, and the differences between them actually impact the gameplay. On top of that, there are a lot of viable ways to play this game, and I expect to see many types of alliances put up ridiculous scores this season, unlike years past where one playstyle was dominant above all others. Every match will be unique, and that in itself is exciting.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

Worth it? Maybe only at the highest levels of play.
Will teams do it? I wouldn't be surprised.

Points are always good, at every level of play. Unless you're damaging your robot consistently while attempting 2-ball autos, it seems worth it to me. I think there will be plenty of early season matches where 30 points would be the winning score.

I won't be surprised either.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by evanperryg

My concern is that scouting data could easily be used to find which defense among the two a particular team is good/bad with. Here's a hypothetical situation: Team A has 19 QP, and is the first seed. Team B has 18 QP, and is the second seed. However, although they aren't terrible, Team A isn't better than anyone else in the top 8, and Team B would much rather be with someone else. Team A, understanding their situation, is willing to scorch to ensure a win in elims. Both teams have one match left in qualifications. Now, let's say that Team B is a big team, and they know that in team A's last match, the audience decides the Group A barriers; their scouts know Team A is good with the portcullis, but terrible with the Cheval de Frise. So, Team B leverages their size, outscreams everyone, and gets the Cheval in A's last match, thereby influencing the outcome of a match they aren't even in.

That's not a terribly likely scenario. The audience selection rules note that a selection is for an entire ROUND of matches, not a single match. So one audience selection is going to be good for 10-ish matches. And in your scenario, it will affect Team A and B, since the choice for the last round will be in effect for both their last matches.

Originally Posted by tindleroot

If a rule is stated in the game manual without mention of time period limitations, then the rule is active for the duration of the match, including autonomous. The only way to possibly make a 2 ball auto would be to take your preloaded ball through the Outer Works, score it, go back to the neutral zone, pick up a ball (without going over the center line), go back through the Outer Works again and score it.

Difficult? Yes.
Impossible? No.
Worth it? Maybe only at the highest levels of play.
Will teams do it? I wouldn't be surprised.

Alternate game plan: Start in the COURTYARD as SPY BOT. You'll have a straight shot at the goal, then you just have to get out, grab a boulder, and get back in for the second shot.

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

FIRST needs to come up with a cool name for the elite field setup crew who will be responsible for setting up the defenses.

Ed, I'm pretty sure castle designers/builders were called engineers. But maybe it's more glamorous if you say it with a Ye-Olde-English accent?