G43 loophole

[martin417]

Originally Posted by Pongox

True, but as AndyBare said, the robot does not have to be traversing the defense, only attempting to traverse.

Please read the definition of traversing (highlighted in red above)

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by martin417

Please read the definition of traversing (highlighted in red above)

But all you need to do is attempt to traverse. He understands that.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by AndyBare

But all you need to do is attempt to traverse. He understands that.

How you define "attempting" could be very different than he does though. Does the lead up to a traverse fall under "attempting"? What about when you fail a traverse? When does the "attempt" end?

[rich2202]

Note: If you have an extension that is holding the door open, and that extension is in the Outerworks, then the robot is in the outerworks.

Note2: The door does extend into the neutral zone, so there could be a time when the robot is full outside of Outerworks, yet still in contact with the defense.

Maybe a Q&A requesting a clarification that robot is "in the outerworks" or "in contact with the defense".

[martin417]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Note: If you have an extension that is holding the door open, and that extension is in the Outerworks, then the robot is in the outerworks.

Note2: The door does extend into the neutral zone, so there could be a time when the robot is full outside of Outerworks, yet still in contact with the defense.

Maybe a Q&A requesting a clarification that robot is "in the outerworks" or "in contact with the defense".

Read the definition again, carefully. The definition explicitly says a robot is traversing if "any part of its BUMPERS are within the opponent’s OUTER WORKS."

An extension is not a bumper.

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by martin417

Read the definition again, carefully. The definition explicitly says a robot is traversing if "any part of its BUMPERS are within the opponent’s OUTER WORKS."

An extension is not a bumper.

Name the robot "Its bumpers." I've solved it!

[GeeTwo]

My understanding: Once the robot bumpers enter the outer works, the traversal attempt has begun. As you pull the door down and back out of the outer works, because the traversal is defined such that you start not in contact with the defense, the traversal attempt continues.

Still need a GDC confirmation.

[DKolberg]

I would think that when you pull down the drawbridge, the part you run over is still part of the outerworks and therefore you can not hit someone.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by DKolberg

I would think that when you pull down the drawbridge, the part you run over is still part of the outerworks and therefore you can not hit someone.

Nope. The part of the drawbridge does not extend Outer Works into the Neutral Zone.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

My understanding: Once the robot bumpers enter the outer works, the traversal attempt has begun. As you pull the door down and back out of the outer works, because the traversal is defined such that you start not in contact with the defense, the traversal attempt continues.

Still need a GDC confirmation.

A good reasonable interpretation - can you confirm with Q&A when it opens? Because reasonable or not, until the GDC says you're right, you're not right.

(I'm just a lowly head ref not on a team so I don't have Q&A asking rights.)

[cmwilson13]

Originally Posted by Monochron

How you define "attempting" could be very different than he does though. Does the lead up to a traverse fall under "attempting"? What about when you fail a traverse? When does the "attempt" end?

They define traversing in the rule and according to that definition contact alone is not traversing. Only breaking the plane of the outer works is defined as traversing. Here is the pertinent line

A ROBOT is considered traversing the opponent’s OUTER WORKS if any part of its BUMPERS are within the opponent’s OUTER WORKS.

If you backup to pull down the bridge you are no longer breaking the plane of the outer works

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by cmwilson13

They define traversing in the rule and according to that definition contact alone is not traversing. Only breaking the plane of the outer works is defined as traversing. Here is the pertinent line

A ROBOT is considered traversing the opponent’s OUTER WORKS if any part of its BUMPERS are within the opponent’s OUTER WORKS.

If you backup to pull down the bridge you are no longer breaking the plane of the outer works

But would you agree that pulling a gate down in an attempt to traverse the outer works is "attempting to traverse"? That's the key.

[cmwilson13]

No. They defined traversing and contact is not listed anywhere

[martin417]

Since there is no definition in the rules for "attempting to traverse", then "attempting" has no meaning withing the rules.

So, how does a ref decide if a robot is "attempting"? Is moving towards the defense attempting? It could be, because The robot is attempting to get to the outer works. There is no way the GDC will allow such an ambiguous definition to stand. Expect a team update where they include "contacting any part of the defense" to the definition of "traversing".

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by martin417

Expect a team update where they include "contacting any part of the defense" to the definition of "traversing".

Bingo