Universal Spy Hand Signals

[vhcook]

Originally Posted by Rohan8616

Can a human player (spy) bring a non-electronic device (such as a whiteboard) onto with them to the spy area to assist communication with the drivers?

5.5.9 B permits "non-powered signaling devices" to be brought into the CASTLE, but that rule, which is usually the rule saying what you can bring onto the playing field at all, only says CASTLE, not SPY BOX. It's unclear what you can legally have in the SPY BOX, but I'm guessing not including it in 5.5.9 was an oversight that might be resolved in a team update.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by vhcook

5.5.9 B permits "non-powered signaling devices" to be brought into the CASTLE, but that rule, which is usually the rule saying what you can bring onto the playing field at all, only says CASTLE, not SPY BOX. It's unclear what you can legally have in the SPY BOX, but I'm guessing not including it in 5.5.9 was an oversight that might be resolved in a team update.

But I'm not sure how we interpret this:

vi. do not in any way affect the outcome of a MATCH, other than by allowing PLAYERS to plan or track strategy for the purposes of communication of that strategy to other ALLIANCE members.

It is for purposes of communication, but it is not communicating strategy. It is communicating position, directions, lined up for a shot ...

But if 5.5.9 is not extended to apply to the SPY BOX, then it's pretty much open game with no restrictions of what you bring in there. You could bring in a great big LED display screen.

[rabeyerle]

It may be necessary for the spy to distinguish between the 1, 2, or 3 teams in the courtyard area -- i.e., one needs to back up, another to the right, the third to move forward. It will depend on who's view is blocked by defenses, and from which station they control.

[Kartoffee]

Instead of having signals for which direction to move, remember that you can use cameras. The signals should be more focused towards warning the alliance about the number of boulders in the enemy castle. If the enemy has 6 boulders, then scoring again forces them to feed another boulder into the game. This would allow you to grab the boulder that they were forced to feed into the field, so you can make a cycle.

[MikLast]

Originally Posted by Kartoffee

Instead of having signals for which direction to move, remember that you can use cameras. The signals should be more focused towards warning the alliance about the number of boulders in the enemy castle. If the enemy has 6 boulders, then scoring again forces them to feed another boulder into the game. This would allow you to grab the boulder that they were forced to feed into the field, so you can make a cycle.

Instead of relying on just one method of direction (e.g: camera, hand signal) why not use a couple so the drivers can focus on the camera and driving while the coach looks out for the Spy's signal (robot coming from left, something broke, etc)

[Zetoid]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

Just some quick thoughts

Hand to left: move to left
hand to right: move to right
Hands towards driver station: drive back
Hands up: drive forward
Arms to both left and right: You're good

I believe we should also include numbers in the secret language. This would be to represent the number of balls in the opposing team's play. By monitoring the number of balls in play your alliance may avoid fouls, or induce fouls on the opposing team.

I believe this could be done by, just by showing the numbers using their hands. However this may not be as affective because, it may interfere with hand movements and I'm not too good at stress counting.

[Demonic_]

Originally Posted by Matt178

We have a few members/mentors who know ASL and are thinking of making a universal FIRST Stronghold ASL Dictionary just for this.

I really like this idea! The head mentor for our team had that same thinking. I hope we get a copy.

[Dawntracker5104]

I think putting together a hand signal that is common between most of the teams is a good idea, allowing the spy not only to communicate to their drive team, but to the rest of the alliance as well

[josephus]

Originally Posted by engunneer

I think this will have to evolve. Start a list here of what things should be signaled.

1. Boulder locations (One fist raised, other hand pointing to location)
2. Defensive robot location (hand open, palm facing drivers, other hand pointing at location of defensive robot)
3. Move away from spy (two hands pushing robot away from spy, palms facing robot)
4. Move closer from spy (two hands pulling robot away to spy, palms facing spy)

I think this is good, one hand can signal the subject, be it game element or alliance robot, while the other signals specific information. This will help avoid confusion as to what the spy is communicating about, and the drive coaches can easily signal what information they need. Message can be repeated until acknowledged by coach or situation changes.
Perhaps instead of pointing to communicate position, we can create a system for giving rough section coordinates reverting to pointing and gesturing for more precise navigation. For example, the spy could signal that there was a boulder in the region of defense 3, close to the tower then give gesture directions when a robot is in that region to pick up that boulder.
These should be refined, published, and circulated at competitions with illustrated instructions.

[demosthenes2k8]

A small warning about multiple hands in signs: in ASL either both hands have the same (or alternating) motion, or one hand remains still while the other moves. Having different motions for each hand will make it more difficult to understand overall. I would suggest making the "nouns" still and the "verbs" movement.

I'm the only mentor for 166 who has sign language experience, as far as I know... This will be interesting.

[Catherine57]

It may be that we can't see the defense (being attacked) status lights very well from the driver stations and signaling their status is helpful. They are pretty low down. Maybe the lower tower lights, too, depending on the location of obstacles. The flag falls when the tower is weakened. Maybe the spy could throw his hat on the ground when the defense is breached.

[Thromgord]

My brief thoughts:

~~~

A general "Wait!" or "Stop!" signal should be putting your right hand up, palm out, in a general "Wait" sort of motion.
A "Don't do [a thing]!" signal should be done by indicating the thing in the ways mentioned below and then drawing right hand across throat, palm down, in the immortal "This will kill you!" gesture.

Defenses should be indicated by pointing at the defensive wall.
If you want to signal the strength of individual defenses, 1) point at defensive wall with left hand, 2) raise right hand over head with between one and five fingers up (indicating which defense you are referring to), and then either put right hand up all the way for full strength, halfway for half strength, and completely down for damaged. Right hand should be palm down. (I should mention that Defense #1 is always the low bar, just to make things clear here.)
If you want to indicate which defense to attack: 1) Point at defensive wall with left hand, 2) raise right hand over head with between one and five fingers up, and 3) make a fist with right hand ("Charge!") If you indicate strength of defenses and then immediately make a fist, it should be interpreted as you wanting to attack that defense on account of its strength. If the robot is misaligned, align it with the instructions provided later.

Actions pertaining to the tower are indicated by pointing at the tower.
"Shoot into the high goal" or "You're aligned for the high goal" is indicated by pointing at tower with left hand and making a "basketball shot" motion with right hand.
"Shoot into the low goal" or "You're aligned for the low goal" is indicated by pointing at tower with left hand and making a "bowling-ball-roll" motion with right hand.
"The enemy's defense has been breached!" is indicated by pointing at the tower with left hand, raising right hand straight up with all fingers extended, and then making a motion as if you're hitting a buzzer open-palmed at slightly above eye level (basically, just rotate elbow down).
"Surround the castle!" is indicated by pointing at tower with left hand and making a fist with right hand.
"Climb the tower!" or "You're aligned to climb the tower!" is indicated by pointing at the tower with left hand and pointing at the sky with right hand.
If the robot is misaligned, align it with the instructions below.

"A boulder is here!" is indicated by pointing to the location of boulder with left hand and then using both hands to mime "holding a boulder" over one's head with hands on either side of the "boulder." (Repeat as needed.)
"Pick up the boulder!" is indicated by pointing to the boulder with your left hand and making a motion as if you're picking up a boulder off the ground with right hand (without stooping).
"A defensive robot is here!" is indicated by pointing to the defensive robot with your left hand and putting your right hand over your heart while making a fist. If the robot is moving, follow it with your finger, bringing your arm closer towards you if it's close to you and further away if it's near the other side of the field.

Directing where the robot moves is done as follows:
Extend both arms straight out in front of you if you want the robot to go in that direction quickly.
The same could be said with extending both arms to the left, to the right, straight back, or at any other angle. (For straight back, put arms up over head, bent at the elbows. You know what I mean.)
If you want the robot to go more slowly, only extend arms partway in said direction.
To stop, use "stop" signal above.

Finally, if your robot or any other robot is broken in some way, point to robot and then put both palms on your forehead.

~~~

That's really all I could come up with for now. I'm sure there are plenty of other signs that need inventing, though.

...and I guess I don't have time to do any more of this, so why don't you invent other signs yourself?

-Thromgord

[Irish Robotics]

Originally Posted by Chito

im not liking this whole hand signal idea

Why is that? It would make it easy for spies to not only communicate with their own team, but their entire alliance.

[dmaggio744]

As a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol, the USAF Auxillary, i have some slight experience with flight-line marshaling. Ideally, we would use traffic wands(flashlights with big tinted cones). What the CAP aircrews near me use are just 3' PVC pipes spray painted orange.

ASL is too small, and semaphore is too complicated. I say we meet in the middle and use colored PVC pipes to signal the drivers, and have the motions based off aviation or rigging standards. The PVC pipes could even be two colors, though this would make the language more complicated.

Thoughts?

[Mr. Lim]

*Wave hands furiously while jumping up and down* = Opponents are about to make a massive tactical error, get in position to take advantage now