Rookie Stratagy

[BenGuy]

Just an FYI for rookie teams.

A good strategy for this year could be to create a low robot that can go under the low bar. This robot could also push a boulder into the low goal or play defense in your own zone.

Just an idea for rookie teams looking for help with strategy with such a complicated game.

[Procolsaurus]

Sounds like a Minimum Competitive Concept, mmc, which is generally designed with the intent to make it to eliminations.

It is way better to excel at some aspects of the game than to do all of the aspects ok. A great mmc can provide great synergy with the best of bots.

[thatprogrammer]

I'd say to concentrate on tackling 2-3 obstacles by using large wheels on the kitbot and adding a scoop to score in the low goal.

[Thromgord]

There are actually a good number of things for first-year teams to do. It's easy, for example, to do the following:

Create a robot that goes under the low bar. Basically for the reasons previously mentioned.
Create a robot capable of holding doors open for others. Extremely useful if there's a Drawbridge or Sally Port that others can't weaken otherwise. It's simple and effective!
Create a robot that can score in the low goal efficiently. At the end of the day, a great robot that can shoot into the low goal beats the pants off an iffy robot that can shoot into the high goal.

If I was a rookie team, I would create a robot with the ability to very quickly push balls through the low bar and onto the other side of the field for a shooter-robot to collect and score with. It's not tremendously difficult at all, but with good organization, it could result in streamlined and efficient gameplay (and a much better chance of making it to eliminations!)

[Doug Frisk]

You forgot the most important thing a rookie team can do. Build a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender. A robust drivetrain and a good driver can probably cut in half the number of boulders scored against your castle.

Take them from 15 to 7 boulders scored and you've kept prevented the other alliance from claiming a ranking point.

Call your robot Dane Axe and imagine you're at the battle of Stamford Bridge.

[philso]

Originally Posted by Thromgord

There are actually a good number of things for first-year teams to do. It's easy, for example, to do the following:

Create a robot that goes under the low bar. Basically for the reasons previously mentioned.
Create a robot capable of holding doors open for others. Extremely useful if there's a Drawbridge or Sally Port that others can't weaken otherwise. It's simple and effective!
Create a robot that can score in the low goal efficiently. At the end of the day, a great robot that can shoot into the low goal beats the pants off an iffy robot that can shoot into the high goal.

If I was a rookie team, I would create a robot with the ability to very quickly push balls through the low bar and onto the other side of the field for a shooter-robot to collect and score with. It's not tremendously difficult at all, but with good organization, it could result in streamlined and efficient gameplay (and a much better chance of making it to eliminations!)

Originally Posted by DareDad

You forgot the most important thing a rookie team can do. Build a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender.

A team that builds the robot Thromgord describes would likely have the qualities to be "a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender". A team that has the goal of building "a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender" will likely not be able to do many of things Thromgord describes that would allow their alliance to increase their score.

[MikLast]

IMO the best advice: Dont always listen to what others tell you to do, if you have a design that you think you can do and are confident in its success pertaining to the challenge, DO IT! Become the breakout rookie of the event, get other teams and the community talking about your team, and get your team excited with an original design! You dont need to be a cookie cutter robot, you can do any design you want, you just have to build it!

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by philso

A team that builds the robot Thromgord describes would likely have the qualities to be "a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender". A team that has the goal of building "a kick $@#$@#$@# castle defender" will likely not be able to do many of things Thromgord describes that would allow their alliance to increase their score.

This is true, but if a team attempts to build Thromgord's robot may bite off more than it can chew resulting in an incomplete and drivers with no practice.

The #1 thing a rookie or inexperienced team should do is build a strong 6 cim drive train and give their drivers a lot of practice. Even if any of their other plans or designs don't pan out, they can always be a valuable partner by playing defense.

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

This is true, but if a team attempts to build Thromgord's robot may bite off more than it can chew resulting in an incomplete and drivers with no practice.

The #1 thing a rookie or inexperienced team should do is build a strong 6 cim drive train and give their drivers a lot of practice. Even if any of their other plans or designs don't pan out, they can always be a valuable partner by playing defense.

Yep, and every single alliance is going to want a dedicated castle defender. A match without a defender is a match that is lost.

[John Retkowski]

Will both alliances lose if neither have a defender?

Joking aside, one important thing to remember about defense. Generally speaking, Denying the other alliance points is just scoring those points for your alliance in a different way.

[Bopskip]

Would you need to alter the KOP Drivetrain or even make a new one? Or could you stick with the KOP Drivetrain with bigger wheels?

Also, are 8 inch rubber tread wheels instead of pneumatic wheels ok?

[Grayspecter]

This year is probably one of the best years for a low lying drivetrain robot.

A lot of Stronghold's aspects are similar to the 2010 game, where pretty much everyone was a drivetrain, pushed around balls similar to the boulders this year, and climbed a bar like the one on the tower. Additionally on the field there were low passages for easy movement for small robots, just like the low bar.

One of the objectives this year is weakening the tower, which usually requires 8 scored boulders (tech fouls or GDC sprucing stuff up for district champs and beyond may affect this). However, it doesn't specify whether it should be a boulder through the high goal or the low goal. A low lying drivetrain bot can easily zip through the low bar for quick scoring cycles purely to weaken the tower. Additionally, we aren't limited in the method of ball possession like 2010, so its arguably easier.

Like those above have mentioned, a decent drivetrain can traverse most of the low lying defenses out there, as well as utilizing its ease of reaching the opponent's courtyard to open the sally port or drawbridge for other robots. Thus it can also contribute to breaching the defenses.

Just like that, a well built, robust drivetrain can be very useful offensively for this game, aiding in gaining ranking points or additional during elims. As was previously mentioned, it can also effectively serve a defensive role as well.

[philso]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

This is true, but if a team attempts to build Thromgord's robot may bite off more than it can chew resulting in an incomplete and drivers with no practice.

The #1 thing a rookie or inexperienced team should do is build a strong 6 cim drive train and give their drivers a lot of practice. Even if any of their other plans or designs don't pan out, they can always be a valuable partner by playing defense.

If what Thromgord is suggesting is beyond the capabilities of any particular team, they need to get with the program and learn what it takes to do those things. They can start by doing some brainstorming and by doing some research, looking at old game videos and searching for threads about those mechanisms here on CD. They can also ask some nearby established teams for some help.

Yes, many rookie teams will build "Defense Bots". How will your team differentiate itself from the other teams with Defense Bots come Alliance Selection time? How will your team progress from only building Defense Bots, as some teams have done for many years?

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by philso

If what Thromgord is suggesting is beyond the capabilities of any particular team, they need to get with the program and learn what it takes to do those things. They can start by doing some brainstorming and by doing some research, looking at old game videos and searching for threads about those mechanisms here on CD. They can also ask some nearby established teams for some help.

Yes, many rookie teams will build "Defense Bots". How will your team differentiate itself from the other teams with Defense Bots come Alliance Selection time? How will your team progress from only building Defense Bots, as some teams have done for many years?

I think we may be talking to different rookie team audiences. When I say rookie team I'm thinking of 6 kids and 2 adults working in a garage on what would be a shoe string budget if they hadn't already used the shoe strings to hold the battery in the robot.

I see a dozen teams each year matching that description. Half the time they don't have a functioning robot on Thursday morning. Yes, a sustainable team with ISO 9000 certification is awesome, but functional needs to come first.

[philso]

Originally Posted by DareDad

I think we may be talking to different rookie team audiences. When I say rookie team I'm thinking of 6 kids and 2 adults working in a garage on what would be a shoe string budget if they hadn't already used the shoe strings to hold the battery in the robot.

I see a dozen teams each year matching that description. Half the time they don't have a functioning robot on Thursday morning. Yes, a sustainable team with ISO 9000 certification is awesome, but functional needs to come first.

If a rookie team is physically isolated and does not know of any resources such as CD or other teams, or they absolutely refuse any outside help, for whatever reason, I can see them showing up at a tournament with a half-assembled KOP. Otherwise, I do not see any excuse for a rookie team not to learn and stretch and try to score in some way, even if they ultimately fail. I think last years game where defense was prohibited was the GDC's reaction to seeing too many Defense Bots.

We worked with several total rookie teams last year. One from out of our area had 4 or 5 students and 2 adults. At one tournament, we were able to give them ideas on how to improve their scoring mechanism and directed them to an established team that was doing well with a mechanism similar to theirs to get more ideas. Over the course of 2 1/2 days, they went from just struggling to pick up a single tote to being able to put up stacks of at least 2. At the next, tougher Regional, they were able to improve their ranking relative to their ranking at the first. Another rookie team in town would visit us every two weeks or so and work along side our team or would visit our generous friends at Spectrum to get advice and access to tools and materials they did not have. They had about 8 students and a team parent with no technical skills who mainly signed paperwork, helped to pay for things and drove the students around. I don't recall seeing him pick up a screwdriver or a drill. Their ranking at the end of the tournament wasn't great but they kept a positive attitude and learned from us and other teams in the process, saw that they could do the things that teams ranking higher than them did and were excited to do better in the future. I think I just described "Inspiration"...