Secret Passage

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by bduddy

At this point you are simply inventing rules that do not exist. There is nothing in the rules that would prevent an attacking robot from remaining in a Secret Passage, as long as it does not initiate contact with a defending robot.

G21 A ROBOT contacting carpet in the opponent’s SECRET PASSAGE may not contact opposing ROBOTS.
Violation: TECH FOUL

That says may not contact, not may not initiate contact.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by DareDad

G21 A ROBOT contacting carpet in the opponent’s SECRET PASSAGE may not contact opposing ROBOTS.
Violation: TECH FOUL

That says may not contact, not may not initiate contact.

If the other robot initiates the contact, then it is violating G11:

Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of
FIRST Robotics Competition and not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in
an assignment of a penalty to the targeted ALLIANCE.

Thus, there would be no G21 penalty.

[Doug Frisk]

If you were right, the attacker could simply park a robot in front of the player station to prevent the defender robot from getting boulders. As long as they're parked a foot from the wall, the defending human player can still enter boulders onto the field so the attacker is not forcing a foul.

I'm sure it will be clarified in a Q&A but the defending robot always has a legitimate reason to be traversing the secret passage. The attacking robot is either there attempting to steal a boulder or blocking free access to the defender or both.

From a gameplay perspective it makes sense that the attacker must get out of the way of the defender.

I think the best you can expect to see is that if the defender initiates contact the attacking robot must immediately make way or suffer a foul. Otherwise attackers will be parking in there and watching for a 5 count by the ref.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DareDad

From a gameplay perspective it makes sense that the attacker must get out of the way of the defender.

I think the best you can expect to see is that if the defender initiates contact the attacking robot must immediately make way or suffer a foul. Otherwise attackers will be parking in there and watching for a 5 count by the ref.

I think that this would be probably what's next up. The GDC really doesn't have a whole lot of options here:

--exclude the passage contact rule from G11 entirely (won't happen, as now you've really got a can of worms)
--Clarify that the passage contact rule applies either only to initiating or regardless of initiating
--Add a new rule that if contacted, the attacker needs to be moving out right away (like the "bump-to-pass" in '08)

Personally, I'd go for the third one, but I don't think that'll make life any easier on the refs.

[alecmuller]

For anyone still following this, the 1st rule update clarified it (caveat - I paraphased parts of it, so look it up yourself to be sure):

Section 3.4.3 General Rules

G11 Blue Box added:

G11 does not apply for strategies consistent with standard gameplay, e.g. a TEAM obtaining a BOULDER from their SECRET PASSAGE, . . . .

Examples include:

A. . . . .

B. . . . .

C. A Red robot is parked completely within the Blue Secret Passage. A Blue robot, attempting to reach the Blue Brattice (the human player station where you put boulders back into play), makes contact with the Red Robot. The Red Robot receives a G21 penalty (making contact inside secret passage). There are no violations of G11 (intentionally causing an opposing side to get a foul) because the Blue robot was trying to access their Brattice and not solely trying to cause the Red robot to violate G21.