Secret Passage

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by DareDad

G21 A ROBOT contacting carpet in the opponent’s SECRET PASSAGE may not contact opposing ROBOTS.
Violation: TECH FOUL

That says may not contact, not may not initiate contact.

If the other robot initiates the contact, then it is violating G11:

Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of
FIRST Robotics Competition and not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in
an assignment of a penalty to the targeted ALLIANCE.

Thus, there would be no G21 penalty.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by DareDad

The way I see it, the secret passage belongs to the defender. Any action that prevents the free movement of a defender (your red team) up or down the passage is a foul on blue since red has the absolute right to have a robot anywhere in the Secret Passage.

You may see it that way, but until you can cite a rule to convince me, I don't see it that way. And guess who wears the yellow and black shirt and gets to make the decision?

Originally Posted by DareDad

G21 A ROBOT contacting carpet in the opponent’s SECRET PASSAGE may not contact opposing ROBOTS.
Violation: TECH FOUL

That says may not contact, not may not initiate contact.

And that is the crux of this thread and others - what did the GDC mean by "contact"? Is it active or passive?

[Doug Frisk]

If you were right, the attacker could simply park a robot in front of the player station to prevent the defender robot from getting boulders. As long as they're parked a foot from the wall, the defending human player can still enter boulders onto the field so the attacker is not forcing a foul.

I'm sure it will be clarified in a Q&A but the defending robot always has a legitimate reason to be traversing the secret passage. The attacking robot is either there attempting to steal a boulder or blocking free access to the defender or both.

From a gameplay perspective it makes sense that the attacker must get out of the way of the defender.

I think the best you can expect to see is that if the defender initiates contact the attacking robot must immediately make way or suffer a foul. Otherwise attackers will be parking in there and watching for a 5 count by the ref.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DareDad

From a gameplay perspective it makes sense that the attacker must get out of the way of the defender.

I think the best you can expect to see is that if the defender initiates contact the attacking robot must immediately make way or suffer a foul. Otherwise attackers will be parking in there and watching for a 5 count by the ref.

I think that this would be probably what's next up. The GDC really doesn't have a whole lot of options here:

--exclude the passage contact rule from G11 entirely (won't happen, as now you've really got a can of worms)
--Clarify that the passage contact rule applies either only to initiating or regardless of initiating
--Add a new rule that if contacted, the attacker needs to be moving out right away (like the "bump-to-pass" in '08)

Personally, I'd go for the third one, but I don't think that'll make life any easier on the refs.

[alecmuller]

For anyone still following this, the 1st rule update clarified it (caveat - I paraphased parts of it, so look it up yourself to be sure):

Section 3.4.3 General Rules

G11 Blue Box added:

G11 does not apply for strategies consistent with standard gameplay, e.g. a TEAM obtaining a BOULDER from their SECRET PASSAGE, . . . .

Examples include:

A. . . . .

B. . . . .

C. A Red robot is parked completely within the Blue Secret Passage. A Blue robot, attempting to reach the Blue Brattice (the human player station where you put boulders back into play), makes contact with the Red Robot. The Red Robot receives a G21 penalty (making contact inside secret passage). There are no violations of G11 (intentionally causing an opposing side to get a foul) because the Blue robot was trying to access their Brattice and not solely trying to cause the Red robot to violate G21.