Defenses and Breaching

[Pyro_84]

Me and my coach have had an ongoing debate on whether you can fully damage a defense by yourself.

i.e. I go through the low bar twice and reducing it's health to 0 points, scoring five points both times

Is this possible.

[tomy]

Yes but as the rules states you have to go from the neutral zone to the enemy courtyard to weaken a defense.

3.1.3 DEFENSES and the OUTER WORKS
The OUTER WORKS impede the passage of ROBOTS and BOULDERS into the COURTYARD. ROBOTS
move BOULDERS across the OUTER WORKS into the COURTYARD one-at-a-time.
Each DEFENSE starts the MATCH with two (2) STRENGTH (a measure of progress towards the
completion of an objective). Each time a DEFENSE is CROSSED by a ROBOT, its STRENGTH is
decreased by one (1). When a DEFENSE’S STRENGTH reaches zero (0), the DEFENSE is DAMAGED.
The STRENGTH of a DEFENSE is indicated by DEFENSE lighting as described in Section 2 (2.2.2.1
DEFENSES). Once four (4) out of an ALLIANCE’S five (5) DEFENSES have been DAMAGED, the
ALLIANCE’S OUTER WORKS are BREACHED.

A DEFENSE is CROSSED by a ROBOT when that ROBOT
■ starts free of contact with the DEFENSE and completely in the NEUTRAL ZONE
■ traverses the DEFENSE such that its BUMPERS go fully between the adjacent SHIELDS/GUARDRAIL,
and
■ ends up fully contained by the opponent’s COURTYARD.

ROBOTS can also receive AUTO points for REACHING a DEFENSE. A DEFENSE is REACHED when,
at the end of the AUTO period, any part of a ROBOT’s BUMPERS are within the opponent’s OUTER
WORKS. Once a ROBOT CROSSES a DEFENSE in AUTO, any additional DEFENSES that ROBOT
REACHES or CROSSES during the AUTO period will not decrease DEFENSE STRENGTH nor contribute
points to the ALLIANCE.
If it is unclear whether a ROBOT has satisfied the requirements for
CROSSING or REACHING a DEFENSE, the REFEREES are instructed
to not award credit. As such, DRIVE TEAMS should make it very clear
that their ROBOT has met the criteria for CROSSING or REACHING a
DEFENSE.
A BREACH of the opposing ALLIANCE’S OUTER WORKS earns the ALLIANCE one (1) Ranking Point
during Qualification MATCHES (see Section 5 (5.3.3 Ranking Score (RS))) or match points during
Playoff MATCHES.

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

Originally Posted by Pyro_84

Me and my coach have had an ongoing debate on whether you can fully damage a defense by yourself.

i.e. I go through the low bar twice and reducing it's health to 0 points, scoring five points both times

Is this possible.

In autonomous, you can't score twice.
In teleop, You can breach all the defenses you want

[wazateer1]

You cannot damage a defense unless you start completely in the neutral zone, and cross all the way into the courtyard, but there is no rule saying you cannot then back up across the defense and cross it again

[CoreyBrown]

I'm slightly confused as to what "Once a ROBOT CROSSES a DEFENSE in AUTO, any additional DEFENSES that ROBOT
REACHES or CROSSES during the AUTO period will not decrease DEFENSE STRENGTH nor contribute
points to the ALLIANCE." means. Does that mean you can CROSS the same DEFENSE twice and decrease its STRENGTH and score twice? The use of the word "additional" just hit me funny.

[adam the great]

Originally Posted by CoreyBrown

I'm slightly confused as to what "Once a ROBOT CROSSES a DEFENSE in AUTO, any additional DEFENSES that ROBOT
REACHES or CROSSES during the AUTO period will not decrease DEFENSE STRENGTH nor contribute
points to the ALLIANCE." means. Does that mean you can CROSS the same DEFENSE twice and decrease its STRENGTH and score twice? The use of the word "additional" just hit me funny.

It means that once you fully cross it during auto you no longer can get the 2 pts for ending in the outerworks, nor can you back up and cross through any of the defenses to do damage to it nor get any points from it. (Q & A comes out real soon so be sure to watch that as it will certainly be clarified on there.)

[BrianAtlanta]

Let me try to explain with examples.

1. get through a defense and be totally in the courtyard. Score 10pts for crossing, defense takes a point of damage.

2. Get through a defense in to the courtyard (defense takes 1pt of damage), turn around drive over a defense in to the neutral zone. Turn around, drive over the defense and in to the courtyard a second time (defense does not take any damage and you get no points). 10pts

Brian

[DaneeR]

In Autonomous- no you cannot totally damage a defense on your own because you can only get points for crossing one time.

In Teleop- YES, ABSOLUTELY. You can damage any or all the defenses, getting points for crossing both times.

[coachm]

What if 2 robots from the alliance cross the same defense? For example, they take turns crossing the low bar.

3.1.3 says "any additional defenses that robot crosses", which suggests that 2 robots crossing the same defense would count as damaging.

Would take good cooperation to get timing right, though, with little benefit unless both 'bots were only able to cross low bar.

[coachm]

As to scoring for crossing defenses, does everyone agree that you can only score points for crossing a defense twice with a maximum of 50 points possible for all 5 defenses? After damaging a defense there are 0 points for crossing any more?

[CoreyBrown]

Originally Posted by coachm

What if 2 robots from the alliance cross the same defense? For example, they take turns crossing the low bar.

3.1.3 says "any additional defenses that robot crosses", which suggests that 2 robots crossing the same defense would count as damaging.

Would take good cooperation to get timing right, though, with little benefit unless both 'bots were only able to cross low bar.

This is now clarified in Team Update 1 as "Any additional REACHES or CROSSES by that ROBOT..." It sounds like you and one other alliance partner can damage a defense if you both cross it during the autonomous period.

[MisterG]

Originally Posted by coachm

As to scoring for crossing defenses, does everyone agree that you can only score points for crossing a defense twice with a maximum of 50 points possible for all 5 defenses? After damaging a defense there are 0 points for crossing any more?

The point that each defense can only be weakened twice is pretty clear by a combination of 3.1.3 and Table 3-1.

Each DEFENSE starts the MATCH with two (2) STRENGTH (a measure of progress towards the
completion of an objective). Each time a DEFENSE is CROSSED by a ROBOT, its STRENGTH is
decreased by one (1). When a DEFENSE’S STRENGTH reaches zero (0), the DEFENSE is DAMAGED.

Our general understanding is that auto crossings will also de-strengthen defenses. With this in mind the ideal first three crossings will be in Auto and will count for 10 points each. So best total defense score is 65.

[Joe Wilson]

Each DEFENSE starts the MATCH with two (2) STRENGTH (a measure of progress towards the
completion of an objective). Each time a DEFENSE is CROSSED by a ROBOT, its STRENGTH is
decreased by one (1). When a DEFENSE’S STRENGTH reaches zero (0), the DEFENSE is DAMAGED.

This does not imply that CROSSING a defense once it's strength is at 0 no longer awards CROSSING points.

That is to say, it does not imply that a DAMAGED defense no longer awards points for additional CROSSINGS.

This will be one for the Q&A for sure.

[bjtheone]

Originally Posted by Joe Wilson

This does not imply that CROSSING a defense once it's strength is at 0 no longer awards CROSSING points.

That is to say, it does not imply that a DAMAGED defense no longer awards points for additional CROSSINGS.

This will be one for the Q&A for sure.

Nope look at the scoring chart on 3.3.1. Points are awarded for CROSSING an UNDAMAGED DEFENSE. Once it has been CROSSED twice it is DAMAGED.

[Joe Wilson]

Ahah! There it is, good catch