Flipping Rules?

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by InspectorGadget1073

Lowkey savage

I cannot stop watching that loop. Amazing.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Nothing, except that it's effectively impossible to design a robot that does this well without violating the frame perimeter rules, since your wheels cannot extend past your frame perimeter.

Actually, it is the other way around as it is illegal to intentionally reach into the other robots frame perimeter. I posted a much longer reply here in this thread concerning your statement. And I found the rule concerning extensions past your frame perimeter including wheels, after a match starts. Starting config. rules are different though.

G18 ROBOTS may not extend more than 15 in. beyond their FRAME PERIMETER. Violation: FOUL. If repeated, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.

**And NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE....It is just a wee bit more difficult to acheive, as can certainly be seen by that flipping the hanging robot gif.

[waialua359]

I would assume flipping a robot is fair game if you try to play defense on me and "flip yourself over" in the process.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Glenn,
That was our belief back in 2003. We would not actively interact with a robot that was near tipping themselves. We practiced just stopping if a robot was climbing up our ramp.
To add to the discussion, tipping is not GP and therefore is not allowed. This is not Battlebots and there is nothing inspiring about taking a robot out of competition, breaking it beyond repair or caring nothing about your potential alliance partners.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by cglrcng

In the starting configuration you are correct. But, once the match starts and as long as bumpers remain legal within the listed bumper rules for the entire match, and all other Game, Robot, and other rules are followed...There is a specific extension (beyond the frame perimeter), limitation that takes over once the match starts, wherein you may extend past that frame perimeter and nothing that I have yet read (in the game rules), limits "your wheels" from being within that zone...Then again, you didn't specify "which wheels" IE: Drive wheels, boulder collector wheels, measuring wheels, DEFENSE helper wheels, tilting wheels, etc.

So, while your statement quoted above is partially true in "some robot states" like placing the robot on the field in starting configuration before the match begins. Said statement does not exactly stand anywhere true (robot to robot, or equate to "totally true" at all once the match starts.

Many 2016 FRC Robots I suspect, will have boulder collectors that use "wheels in many forms that will extend past the frame perimeter" and all must be within the allowable extension zone from frame perimeter(s).

I wanted to direct you to the proper game manual section (and numbered printed figure or example here), concerning what to look for wherein extension from frame perimeter limitations during the match is allowed. And I am very sorry I cannot at this time, but my education mentor wife took our printed copy to bed to review and compare the today released updates and she is now lights out, a teacher so she needs her rest. (She is a devoted FIRST Mentor....She even sleeps with the Game Manual!) What's more, she actually reads (and re-reads), and studies it too.

And, try as I may looking through the pdf online downloaded Game manual I cannot quickly find the actual robot rules section required at the moment (the pdf file using Adobe Reader 11 does not load the pages fast enough while scrolling through attempting to find printed figure examples to find it looking just for the examples).

So....You need to look in the Robot section, locate the figure that shows an overhead view of robot frame, robot bumpers and an area drawn around the robot which shows a dashed red line about a 15" beyond frame perimeter in the example surrounding the robot w/ bumpers. Then simply read up to understand that during the match "your wheels" (as you used in the original quote), and other robot manipulators and extensions is allowed within specific limitations, but only after the matches start. Further, this year at no time can such items extend beyond that area or limit during the entire match.

I hope that explains why I posted a correction.

Just remember, nobody here is the GDC or the FIRST approved Q&A and nothing we say here as posters is OFFICIAL (which opens tomorrow 1-13-2016 at noon....So, if you have questions...ask there starting tomorrow on the FIRST website.

http://www.firstinspires.org/resourc...nual-qa-system

Click on the Q&A section link at the website above starting at noon today and ask away.

Addition:
Found it! But, I didn't find the figure/drawing yet.

G18 ROBOTS may not extend more than 15 in. beyond their FRAME PERIMETER. Violation: FOUL. If repeated, offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.

If you really want to actuate your wheel positions in that way, sure. Note that doing this would require actuating the lengthwise position of the wheels, which is impossible to do if you're using belts or chains.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

If you really want to actuate your wheel positions in that way, sure. Note that doing this would require actuating the lengthwise position of the wheels, which is impossible to do if you're using belts or chains.

not impossible. if you acticulate the whole wheel assembly (motor gearbox etc.) you can move it however you want. Just some slack in the wires. Also easier if you running each wheel independently and not from a central gearbox

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

not impossible. if you acticulate the whole wheel assembly (motor gearbox etc.) you can move it however you want. Just some slack in the wires. Also easier if you running each wheel independently and not from a central gearbox

Read: impossible to do if each side of your drive is belted/chained together, as in 90% of FRC tank drives.

The point here isn't that it's rigorously impossible to do, it's that it's completely unfeasible. Of course, you can have one gearbox per wheel and actuate all your wheels at the start of the match. You'd be adding a boatload of silly complexity for essentially no benefit.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Read: impossible to do if each side of your drive is belted/chained together, as in 90% of FRC tank drives.

The point here isn't that it's rigorously impossible to do, it's that it's completely unfeasible. Of course, you can have one gearbox per wheel and actuate all your wheels at the start of the match. You'd be adding a boatload of silly complexity for essentially no benefit.

I just got a bit of an tick when it comes to people saying things are "impossible" when they mean "impractical in my opinion".

Carry on

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

I just got a bit of an tick when it comes to people saying things are "impossible" when they mean "impractical in my opinion".

Carry on

The original post said "very nearly impossible," which I suppose is a "YMMV" term re: "very nearly."

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

See team 1011 Crush in 2010.

Ironically, also see 1011 Crush in 2013:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=116615

It is a great lesson in high c.g. versus low c.g. between two robots that are otherwise minding their own business.