Passing the boulder

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

I'll add to this:

In general, is it illegal for a robot to pick up a boulder from the OUTER WORKS from the COURTYARD's side, therefore not qualifying as a valid CROSSING?

For example, a stray boulder gets stuck in the ROUGH TERRAIN, or perhaps more contentiously, a bowl from the human player to (through) the LOW BAR?

As the rules stand, no. You only need to cross in order to get the ball from the neutral zone to the opponents courtyard.

[rich2202]

You can also pass a boulder from the Outworks (that you got from the Neutral Zone) as long as you end up in the courtyard. There is no rule that requires you to hold onto the boulder until you reach the courtyard. Only that, if the boulder ends up in the courtyard, the robot must also eventually end up in the courtyard (with our without the boulder).

[George Nishimura]

Originally Posted by AndyBare

As the rules stand, no. You only need to cross in order to get the ball from the neutral zone to the opponents courtyard.

Even if you never enter the NEUTRAL ZONE (similar to your "receiving bot", COURTYARD -> OUTER WORKS -> COURTYARD?

I'm imagining a scenario where a > 14" bot can put its intake under the low bar and a HP bowls them a ball. I'm not questioning its strategic value, but whether that would be legal under the rules (or "spirit" of the rules).

[kenfox]

Originally Posted by George Nishimura

I'm imagining a scenario where a > 14" bot can put its intake under the low bar and a HP bowls them a ball.

We identified a similar strategy with a low robot that can cross under the bar. It might be easy to block its shots, but there's a good chance nobody will bother to play defense. Using a tall robot would be much harder to defend.

It seems legal (at the moment!) to hold open the low bar's Cordura flap while in a shooting position. The robot doesn't even have to move between shots. It can be fed from the human player station or with passes from a robot in the neutral zone. I really hope this strategy is clearly ruled out because it seems against the spirit of all the crossing and outer works rules.

[bjtheone]

Originally Posted by kenfox

We identified a similar strategy with a low robot that can cross under the bar. It might be easy to block its shots, but there's a good chance nobody will bother to play defense. Using a tall robot would be much harder to defend.

It seems legal (at the moment!) to hold open the low bar's Cordura flap while in a shooting position. The robot doesn't even have to move between shots. It can be fed from the human player station or with passes from a robot in the neutral zone. I really hope this strategy is clearly ruled out because it seems against the spirit of all the crossing and outer works rules.

This violates G40, if you are parked in the OUTWORKS and do not complete the CROSSINg before shooting. If your HUMAN PLAYER can get the BOULDER onto the OUTERWORKS, you can take it from there, move into the COURTYARD and SHOOT.

Depending on how you are holding the flap open (perhaps with an extension) you would be violating G40-1.

The intent from the Q&A is very clear. ROBOTS have to CROSS the OUTERWORKS controlling the BOULDER, to move the BOULDER into a potential scoring position (touching the COURTYARD carpet).

[kenfox]

Originally Posted by bjtheone

Depending on how you are holding the flap open (perhaps with an extension) you would be violating G40-1.

I posted that message before the rule clarification. Also, my wish came true: they clearly made the strategy illegal.

It'd be cool to have trusted moderators to mark posts as obsolete so that stuff that people min-max or brainstorm that becomes illegal can be clearly marked as no longer relevant.

[rich2202]

I think the First made it a Ref'ing nightmare.

With Q603, where the boulder came from makes a difference.

Let's say that Red Robot shoots the high goal, and misses. The Boulder rolls and comes to rest in the Outer Works. That boulder is free to be picked up and shot again. Meanwhile, Blue inbounds a boulder, and it is somehow blocked and rolls around in the courtyard. The inbounded boulder is closer to Red Robot, so it goes for that boulder.

The Ref's will somehow have to keep track of which Boulders in the Outer Works have successfully crossed, and which ones have not.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by rich2202

... Meanwhile, Blue inbounds a boulder, and it is somehow blocked and rolls around in the courtyard. ...

So that BOULDER was never in the NEUTRAL ZONE, correct? Then G40 doesn't apply.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

So that BOULDER was never in the NEUTRAL ZONE, correct? Then G40 doesn't apply.

Sorry I started complicating things with Q588. Q588 and Q603 seem to indicate that the LAST robot to touch a BOULDER moving into an opponent's courtyard but complete an entire CROSSING. It's true that it seems to only apply to BOULDERS that start in the NEUTRAL ZONE. That's a bit confusing and would be a lot of work for refs. Anyone want to see if the GDC wants to amend things slightly to cover moving a ball from the OUTER WORKS to the COURTYARD? That'd make reffing easier. Though it'd open a new avenue for defense, since a defender would just have to get the BOULDER to stay in the OUTER WORKS to cause a headache.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Sorry I started complicating things with Q588. Q588 and Q603 seem to indicate that the LAST robot to touch a BOULDER moving into an opponent's courtyard but complete an entire CROSSING. It's true that it seems to only apply to BOULDERS that start in the NEUTRAL ZONE. That's a bit confusing and would be a lot of work for refs. Anyone want to see if the GDC wants to amend things slightly to cover moving a ball from the OUTER WORKS to the COURTYARD? That'd make reffing easier. Though it'd open a new avenue for defense, since a defender would just have to get the BOULDER to stay in the OUTER WORKS to cause a headache.

Those 2 questions show how the GDC is closing a potential loophole. They clarified (redefined?) that to successfully move a BOULDER from NEUTRAL ZONE to COURTYARD, some ROBOT has to make a successful CROSSING, and that ROBOT will be defined as the one that completes the BOULDER's journey.

However, that only applies to BOULDERS that did not start in the COURTYARD or SECRET PASSAGE. If Blue inbounds a ball through the BRATTICE or EMBRASURE and Red grabs the BOULDER, G40 does not apply to Red.