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#1
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Scaling and G18 Interaction
Q504
Q. G18 penalizes an extension more than 15" beyond the robot's frame perimeter. Is plane the measurement occurs in relative to the robot or the field? For instance, a robot uses a grappling hook to climb and tilts 90 degrees as it winches itself up. Do you do the same "virtually transposing the robot to a flat floor" as with R22 to determine if the hook extends greater than 15"? A. Extensions outside the FRAME PERIMETER are measured in the same plane as the FRAME PERIMETER. As the FRAME PERIMETER is re-oriented (e.g. when a ROBOT drives up the BATTER), the plane of measurement is similarly re-oriented. So if I am understanding this correctly when a "tape measure scaler" gets reoriented it will be in violation of G18. Does this shut down that style of climbing? Does anyone have other ideas for getting a low bot to scale? It seems like any method would require being able to keep its orientation parallel or nearly so with the ground. |
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#2
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
Quote:
i guess we'll see deployable arms as well, but i feel like tape mesure scalers will be the most common for low bots Last edited by MaGiC_PiKaChU : 14-01-2016 at 09:36. |
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#3
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
"just"
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#4
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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#5
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
So as several people have mentioned I was interested in exploring the "just."
The first idea that comes to mind is moving the "tape meausre" inward towards the tower and then using an arm with a roller on the end to create a second contact point against the tower. That would allow the robot to roll up the side of the tower while maintaining a flat orientation. Other thoughts or ideas? |
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#6
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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#7
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
I find this really interesting, and perhaps a follow up Q&A is important/necessary. I agree with the interpretation of the answer as applied in this thread, but wonder the following: most tape measure bots will be <13" in height. Tipped upright, and calling the "base" the frame perimeter, will result in a frame perimeter < 120," and a height likely under 4'6" -- if a robot started a match upright, and tipped over, this would probably violate the 15" beyond the frame perimeter rule (though there might be ways of doing it that don't. Then again, said robot would still have to follow bumper rules. (Maybe this is why this rule is what it is). Still, I wonder whether a team could inspect a robot with different sides as height (there haven't in the past been rules that define the wheel base as the bottom, just common sense). It's interesting that, as long as other frame perimeter rules are filled, we can't tip upright, and have that position count as a new, but legal, orientation. Just some thoughts.
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#8
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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My prior thought was a three point lift, which would guarantee levelness, at the price of much more complication. I like your idea a lot better since we'll likely have something over the bumper for boulder grabbing and defense manipulation anyways. |
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#9
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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The only other idea I've got is to move the "tape measure" a bit further away from the tower than the robot's CG, and extend the stabilizing arm upward from the tower-facing edge of the bot. This would allow a longer stabilizing arm, and therefore greater stability. Either way, though, you'll still need the "tape measure" anchor point to be pretty close to the bot's CG. As if it wasn't hard enough already to package all these systems in a low bot... |
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#10
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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#11
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
I'm not 100% sure Q504 means the robot has to remain horizontal during climbing. Sure there's a 15" extension *in the plane of the bumpers* rule, but there's also G17 which says the robot can be as tall as necessary in the last 20s. If the latter overrides the former, than you could tilt vertical while extending up.
Even if both rules apply at once, you might be able to time the rotation angle (RA) and extension length (EL) so that the projection in the plane of the bumpers (EL*sin(RA)) never exceeds 15" outside the frame perimeter (EL has to shrink as RA grows). That's going to be a nightmare to enforce though. |
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#12
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
Thinking about this a bit, the wall of the castle is going to interfere since it will push your frame perimeter towards your extension (the rung is only a few inches from the wall). So if you were going to rotate while climbing, you need to tilt wall-side down. That said, you could tilt down at least ~20 degrees (at the base of the tower) before the frame perimeter rule cuts below any extension reaching for the rung. Don't tilt back though!
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#13
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
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Not tipping backwards is the tricky bit for a low bot with a tape measure lift. |
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#14
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Re: Scaling and G18 Interaction
Quote:
Last edited by GaryVoshol : 14-01-2016 at 21:17. |
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