How many referees does it take?

[MrJohnston]

Watching the rules, discussions, Q&A, etc., one thing has become clear: The referees are going to be busy! Just off the top of my head, they must:
* Confirm success each time a defense is crossed
* Watch for contact in the secret passages
* Keep track of the number of boulders in each castle at any given time
* Watch for potential fouls as robots approach their own defenses
* Keep track of the Spy's activities
* Make sure the human players don't leave assigned areas
* Watch for general illegal play in the courtyards

So, my question is: How many referees will it take to properly monitor this game?

[Andrew Schreiber]

More than they are saying. I predict 2014 levels of ref stress.

[Bryce2471]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

Watching the rules, discussions, Q&A, etc...

Emphasis mine.

Where are you reading the Q&A? I might just be missing it, but a search of the first website brings me to a page that says:

The FIRST Robotics Competition Game Question and Answer System will be available after Kickoff.

If the Q&A system is up and running, a link would be super helpful.

Thanks

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Bryce2471

Emphasis mine.

Where are you reading the Q&A? I might just be missing it, but a search of the first website brings me to a page that says:

If the Q&A system is up and running, a link would be super helpful.

Thanks

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Questions.php

There you go

[Whippet]

EDIT: Sniped.

[rich2202]

5 should do it (head ref + 4), however, it is virtually impossible to monitor the number of boulders, so 2 more if they really want to watch for it.

1 ref to watch the courtyard and SP
1 ref to watch the NZ and Outer works for crossing
ditto for the other side

Only one defensive bot is allowed in the courtyard, so that cuts down a lot of what you have to watch there.
The NZ could be busy with all 3 bots trying to cross. In those instances, the Courtyard ref can help watch for penalties, while the Outer Works ref concentrates on crossings.

[Steven Donow]

I think what will end up happening is 5 and then when they realize how "Week 1 Recycle Rush" that is they'll add 2 scorekeepers with clickers for balls (add 2 more if you want them to keep track of defenses as well)

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

Watching the rules, discussions, Q&A, etc., one thing has become clear: The referees are going to be busy! Just off the top of my head, they must:
* Confirm success each time a defense is crossed
* Watch for contact in the secret passages
* Keep track of the number of boulders in each castle at any given time
* Watch for potential fouls as robots approach their own defenses
* Keep track of the Spy's activities
* Make sure the human players don't leave assigned areas
* Watch for general illegal play in the courtyards

So, my question is: How many referees will it take to properly monitor this game?

That one is going to be the hardest, unless they add a referee to be stationed back in the CASTLE at each end.

I'm wondering how the scoring redundancy will be accomplished. We usually have some checks on each other, just in case. For example in RR, each ref on the blue end scored all the containers and litter, and they visually double-checked the stacked tote counts.

And, will the ball counters work without fail? I still remember problems with DOGMA, and the pokey-pokey stick in Aim High.

Since robots will mostly be scoring, it will be easier to keep track of fouls than in 2014 when you had to watch away from the ball stuff.

[evanperryg]

I think the big issue with 2014 was more that some rules were so subjective that it was difficult to tell sometimes when rules were actually being broken (I think we all remember G40). However, this game has an issue mostly in the many ways you can score. Although it'll be harder to score, it won't come with the heated arguments about scoring.

[Lord Basket]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/Questions.php

There you go

Is it just me, or are all the PDFs blank? I can't find any questions or answers there.

[first3234]

There are 6 ref station's (3 on each side of the field) there 2 in center across from each other then there's 2 one at each outer works and finally 2 of them each across from the spy box's

[Steve Kaneb]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

And, will the ball counters work without fail? I still remember problems with DOGMA, and the pokey-pokey stick in Aim High.

Well, these are most similar to the counters from 2012. I don't remember any failures from that year, across all the competitions.

I would be surprised if this game took too much referee effort. Teams are encouraged in the manual to make things obvious, and the rules are clearer than ever in terms of defensive protections.

[GeeTwo]

The bare minimum in terms of visibility is 5. Just due to blocks in visibility, there has to be one behind each alliance wall (excuse me, in each castle), one viewing each courtyard and accompanying secret passage, and one watching the neutral ground. However, this will not readily answer some of the nitpicky questions as to whether a given robot crossed a defense without some rather rapid communication between the refs. I voted 7, adding a referee for each outer works, who is solely responsible for tracking crossings.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Steve Kaneb

Well, these are most similar to the counters from 2012. I don't remember any failures from that year, across all the competitions.

I would be surprised if this game took too much referee effort. Teams are encouraged in the manual to make things obvious, and the rules are clearer than ever in terms of defensive protections.

So I'm guessing there is a beam sensor just like 2012 at the bottom of the tower structure (ie. right before the balls enter the corral)?

If so, with beam sensors in each of the ball entrances the '6 balls at a time could theoretically be done in FMS.