Can a dead robot still score?

[northstardon]

Having one of your alliance partners go down during a qualifying match is really going to hurt this year. Aside from making it that much harder to outscore the opposing alliance, an alliance robot that’s dead (or disabled) on the field makes it impossible to win a capture RP (unless it just happens to die parked on the enemy’s batter).

Or does it? Can a downed robot shout, “I’m not dead yet!” and score points even after it’s been thrown onto the cart?

CROSS

An act performed by a ROBOT, such that it starts free of contact with an opponent DEFENSE and completely in the NEUTRAL ZONE, traverses the DEFENSE such that its BUMPERS go fully between the adjacent SHIELDS/GUARDRAIL, and ends up fully contained by the opponent’s COURTYARD

CHALLENGE

An act performed by a ROBOT, such that at the conclusion of the MATCH, the ROBOT is fully supported by the TOWER, but hasn’t met the criteria for SCALING the TOWER.

Note that these actions are defined not by what a robot does, but by where a robot is located. The term “traverse” is not defined within the manual, but is commonly defined elsewhere as “traveling over” or “passing over”. I don’t see anything in the definitions that requires a robot to cross a defense or reach the batter under its own power.

So can a dead robot still score points or help score ranking points if an alliance partner pushes it across a defense, or pushes it onto the batter?

Somebody might suggest that the phrase “An act performed by a ROBOT” implies that the robot has to actually do something (i.e. “act”) to facilitate the point-scoring event. But you could just as easily claim that a robot is acting when it allows itself to be pushed from Point A to Point B.

A related question is whether a robot could score auto points for reaching if an alliance partner pushes it into the outer works (reaching is defined based on where a robot is located at the end of the auto period).

[rzoeller]

For perspective, how would a referee know if your robot is being driven under its own power and closely followed (i.e. with contact) or if it was being pushed entirely?

Without being close enough to the robot to see motor controller indicator lights, I can't think of a way unless the robot has lost power/field comms. entirely. I am under the impression that regardless of whom is responsible for the locomotion, points will be awarded.

[Gregor]

It's worth putting in the Q&A for a definitive interpretation but based on your reasoning I come to the same conclusion.

[tindleroot]

I think if my robot was dead I would not want an alliance partner pushing me over any defenses, whether or not it's allowed. Challenging, though, would be fine.

A robot could park for a capture at the beginning of the match and never move (even if not dead). They wouldn't be contributing any more points, though, other than a potential Ranking point. If a robot did that intentionally, I would not pick them for finals as an alliance captain.

[rzoeller]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

I think if my robot was dead I would not want an alliance partner pushing me over any defenses, whether or not it's allowed.

For qualification matches, I tend to agree. However I can see my self wavering if my robot dies late in a close elimination match, especially if I am already midway across a defense.

[mac]

Don't get lazy on us. Borden your horizon. You take the down robot or stuck robot. Drag or push him to the tower. Is that hard to think of? God Bless Mentor Mac

[northstardon]

Originally Posted by mac

Don't get lazy on us. Borden your horizon. You take the down robot or stuck robot. Drag or push him to the tower. Is that hard to think of? God Bless Mentor Mac

Yes, I'll admit that it was a little hard for me to think that a robot that's been disabled by the driver station for unsafe behavior could still score points for their alliance. Or that a robot that can't operate autonomously could still score points during the autonomous period.

Funny that you mentioned dragging a dead (or stuck) robot...I'm also looking for a reason why a robot couldn't grab an alliance partner's bumper and pull them across a defense (not saying it's advisable, just wondering if it's really legal this year).

Drive your robot nose-first into a moat? No worries...just call for a TOWBOT.

[EricH]

I'd be thinking more like Inigo and Fezzik bringing the Man in Black with them to storm the castle.

[bduddy]

For some reason this started a debate in my head over the merits of a robot with casters on a frame, the required parts to qualify as a ROBOT, and nothing else versus one with lots of effort but little success. Note that this is not actually a debate your team should have, but...

[snoman]

"related question is whether a robot could score auto points for reaching if an alliance partner pushes it into the outer works (reaching is defined based on where a robot is located at the end of the auto period)."

In years past yes. We pushed robots in auto in 2014. I see no reason for FIRST to unallow helping an Alliance member.
You may have to push the non auto robot over the obstacle so you can contact it yourself

[EricH]

Originally Posted by snoman

"related question is whether a robot could score auto points for reaching if an alliance partner pushes it into the outer works (reaching is defined based on where a robot is located at the end of the auto period)."

In years past yes. We pushed robots in auto in 2014. I see no reason for FIRST to unallow helping an Alliance member.
You may have to push the non auto robot over the obstacle so you can contact it yourself

Past years rules do not apply to this year. Last year, for example, pushing a partner into the scoring area during auto would not give a robot set.

That being said, this year it appears to be a points-earner. (Though I must admit, the definition of REACH appears to be a tad vague.)