Is Bowling thought the Low Bar legal

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I would submit the question to the Q&A for a definitive answer, but I believe that G33 B and C saying "Boulders may only be introduced to the FIELD during TELEOP by a DRIVER or HUMAN PLAYER, and through one of the holes in the HUMAN PLAYER STATION.
Violation: FOUL per BOULDER

The Embrasure is one of those holes (actually two, because there are two Embrasures and one Brattice). What he's saying is that there's no rule prohibiting a particularly hard kick/bowl/Boulder Propulsion Method from going through/over the opponents' Outer Works, specifically the Low Bar (which is NOT to be confused with the Low Goals)--which is true. I think Physics is more of a Law than a Rule.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by EricH

The Embrasure is one of those holes (actually two, because there are two Embrasures and one Brattice). What he's saying is that there's no rule prohibiting a particularly hard kick/bowl/Boulder Propulsion Method from going through/over the opponents' Outer Works, specifically the Low Bar (which is NOT to be confused with the Low Goals)--which is true. I think Physics is more of a Law than a Rule.

Oh, right. I read it as launching over the HP station. My bad.

[Boltman]

I boils down to .....

"The OUTER WORKS impede the passage of ROBOTS and BOULDERS into the COURTYARD. ROBOTS move BOULDERS across the OUTER WORKS into the COURTYARD one-at-a-time. "

"The OUTER WORKS.... is designed to impeded the passage of ROBOTS and BOULDERS in to the COURTYARDS"

There are RULES (G40) for Robots and NONE for Human Players.

So in Theory IF a Human Player can get the boulder from one of the two holes in the EMBRASURE and into the opponent courtyard you just beat the design to impede that and NO FOUL.

And good luck with that. We want you on our alliance.

[FrankJ]

To be a little less cryptic. Update 2 added rule G40-1 prohibiting a robot holding/propping the low bar flap open and the drive team rolling ball through it. So while not specifically prohibited, bowling a ball through the low flap would be difficult.

[Edxu]

If you really wanted to game the system, one thing you could do is have your ROBOT grab the cloth and instead of holding it open, simply hold it taut at an angle such that when the Human Player punts the ball through the embrasure, the cloth of the Low Bar behaves like a ramp, propelling the ball over.

Although it then causes some ambiguity over the definition of "open" and "closed": "not closed or barred at the time, as a doorway by a door, a window by a sash, or a gateway by a gate: " - Dictionary.com

[timtim17]

Q528 caused it to be illegal, creating G40-1 in update 2.

[Chak]

Originally Posted by timtim17

Q528 caused it to be illegal, creating G40-1 in update 2.

Q528 makes it illegal for a robot to hold the low bar open so that a HP can bowl the ball pass the low bar. The OP is asking about the HP bowling the ball pass the low bar without assistance. As others have said, this is probably physically impossible, but not explicitly illegal right now.

Originally Posted by Q528

However, it conflicts with the intended game play whereby BOULDERS are brought to COURTYARDS by ROBOTS

And I wouldn't want to go against the GDC's intent anyways. I'm pretty sure that if you decided to Q&A this, you would receive the same answer as Q528 except it's a different (and more difficult) loophole.

[rich2202]

Instead of the robot holding the cloth, how about the robot in the shape of a wedge, and the boulder "hits" the robot and "bounces" over the low bar?

[Chak]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Instead of the robot holding the cloth, how about the robot in the shape of a wedge, and the boulder "hits" the robot and "bounces" over the low bar?

Similar to the OP's solution, I think that this would probably be physically impossible.
Even if you figure out a way to do it, this robot would be violating G40.

Originally Posted by G40

A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER to move from the NEUTRAL ZONE into the opponent’s COURTYARD unless:
A. the ROBOT contacts the BOULDER within OUTER WORKS, and
B. the ROBOT completes its CROSSING (i.e. doesn’t completely back out of the OUTER WORKS into the NEUTRAL ZONE)

You would receive a tech foul per boulder, unless this robot follows every boulder through the defense. In that case, any robot with an effective floor intake would be able to perform the same function in a more feasible way.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Chak

Similar to the OP's solution, I think that this would probably be physically impossible.
Even if you figure out a way to do it, this robot would be violating G40.

You would receive a tech foul per boulder, unless this robot follows every boulder through the defense. In that case, any robot with an effective floor intake would be able to perform the same function in a more feasible way.

If the bot is in the outerworks (in order to contact in the outerworks zone), 4 boulders are bowled, and then the robot drives through to the other side before any other bot touches a boulder.

[bjtheone]

Originally Posted by rich2202

If the bot is in the outerworks (in order to contact in the outerworks zone), 4 boulders are bowled, and then the robot drives through to the other side before any other bot touches a boulder.

G40 starts with "A ROBOT may not cause a BOULDER....". "a BOULDER" is singular, and it then goes on to state the required conditions. If you deflect multiple BOULDERS into COURTYARD you are violating the conditions (did not complete the CROSSING) and incur a TECH FOUL per BOULDER.

Also, G40-1 was added to clarify the intent, that only ROBOTS can move BOULDERS, one at a time, into the COURTYARD. This also came up in the Q&A.

[Dylan179]

If a human player where to enter the ball in fast enough and get it over the ramp parts in slot 2 (next to the low bar) is it legal?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Dylan179

If a human player where to enter the ball in fast enough and get it over the ramp parts in slot 2 (next to the low bar) is it legal?

As the rules currently stand? Yes. Is it against the intent of the rules? Yes. Also, I would play around with the physics of the field, but I don't actually think it's possible to get an angle on the Ramparts from the Embrasure from the HP station.

[bjtheone]

Originally Posted by Dylan179

If a human player where to enter the ball in fast enough and get it over the ramp parts in slot 2 (next to the low bar) is it legal?

As the rules stand right now (after update 2) it is legal. The only rule regarding the HUMAN PLAYER and BOULDER interaction is G33, and there are no restrictions on where the BOULDER has to end up, just how it has to enter the FIELD. There have been claims that some HUMAN PLAYERS have been able to kick the BOULDERS over the DEFENSES into the COURTYARD, which also is currently legal. I suspect this will prove to be difficult and very inconsistent.

However, there is no guarantee that the RAMPARTS are going to end up next to the LOW BAR, and realistically if any team thinks anyone can bowl through there they are going to select a different DEFENSE that is harder to bowl over. Remember, per section 5.5.10, the opposing ALLIANCE chooses the DEFENSES in slots 2,4,and 5 and they have control which choice goes where.

[Boltman]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Instead of the robot holding the cloth, how about the robot in the shape of a wedge, and the boulder "hits" the robot and "bounces" over the low bar?

Legal currently however at any time they could pull the "intent of game" clause like they did for holding low bar carpet up by bot. I would not count on that strategy.