TEAM IS IMPLOIDING!!!

[HolyHacker335]

Originally Posted by anonymous_robot

There's no subtle way to says this so I will come right out and say it, my team has lost sight or what FIRST and FRC is all about. To give you a sense of what has happened I first must give a brief five year history.

Interesting. Sounds like a team in our local group of teams. I agree that there should be adult mentors to lead the teams and keep things on track. Our team tried student leaders last season and we had more problems than solutions. Now we have a lead mentor/coach and two sub team coaches (of which I am one) and several mentors.

The biggest problem I have seen is that students don't STUDY the printed materials and WATCH related videos like they should. In short, they are being kids, being lazy, and they need to be prodded, encouraged and inspired.

For your situation I would advise that you do what YOU can to inspire your teamates. LEAD BY EXAMPLE! Make something cool, say, a mechanism prototype for the robot. Do it on your own and don't wait for help. Then, when it is ready, show it off. If you really put some effort into it it should be awesome and inspire your teammates to do the same.

I hope things get better with your team and you have a great season. Take care!

[anonymous_robot]

Originally Posted by HolyHacker335

Interesting. Sounds like a team in our local group of teams. I agree that there should be adult mentors to lead the teams and keep things on track. Our team tried student leaders last season and we had more problems than solutions. Now we have a lead mentor/coach and two sub team coaches (of which I am one) and several mentors.

The biggest problem I have seen is that students don't STUDY the printed materials and WATCH related videos like they should. In short, they are being kids, being lazy, and they need to be prodded, encouraged and inspired.

For your situation I would advise that you do what YOU can to inspire your teamates. LEAD BY EXAMPLE! Make something cool, say, a mechanism prototype for the robot. Do it on your own and don't wait for help. Then, when it is ready, show it off. If you really put some effort into it it should be awesome and inspire your teammates to do the same.

I hope things get better with your team and you have a great season. Take care!

Funny thing is when I try to lead by example everyone gets salty and starts thinking that we are ripping the team apart.

[MrJohnston]

I run a very large team (typically about 100 students)... A few insights:

* As soon as the focus becomes "winning," we become miserable. When this becomes our focus, every single decision becomes more intense. Large numbers of students and mentors become attached to their "best" idea and it becomes extremely difficult to compromise on designs - or even hear one another out. We focus on Gracious Professionalism and working together. When this is the focus, it is much easier for a person to let go of their own "brilliant" idea and settle for something s/he considers "second best" when others believe it to be the "best."

* Kids cannot hold all the decision-making power. Let's face it: They are students and simply do not have the engineering knowledge and skills as our professional mentors. Students must have the humility to really listen to those with knowledge.

* Mentors cannot hold all the power, either. This is a kids' game and the kids need to play.... to have them sit back and watch while the mentors do all the thinking, strategizing, building, etc. undermines the purpose of FIRST and takes nearly everything away from the kids' experience.

* There must be a balance of power between kids and mentors - and that balance changes annually. Some years, we are lucky enough to have a strong core of 4th year students who can take over much of the responsibility. Other years, we have a lot of younger, inexperienced students and the mentors must have a stronger hand in leadership. No matter what the balance in any given year, the kids must have room to take a strong level of responsibility and make mistakes. If mentors always bail them out, the kids won't learn. Winning must be secondary. At the same time, when the kids excel, they should be rewarded with a strong robot. Our team wants to go to St. Louis every year and make a strong showing. However, as mentors, we are only going to make sure that the kids are going to have a robot that has a strong competitive shot at making to the PNW championships. If we are going to actually make it that far - or having a good showing and make it further, it's up to the kids to make it happen - and up to the mentors to point the way.

* We have found that decisions cannot be a straight-up vote with all the members. Annually, the largest group of kdis we have are first-year FIRSTers - freshmen. To leave major robot decisions up to them would be akin to Boeing leaving design decisions for their newest airplane up to interns. It's not going to happen. However, with a large team it is imperative that we give every member a voice. We then have a much smaller student/mentor group driving the decision-making process. When their is not a clear general consensus, we have a very small group of experienced students making the final call. We also emphasize Gracious Professionalism in that process - we know that not everybody can possibly get their way, so we really emphasize how to handle things when a decision goes the "wrong" way.

* Running an FRC team - from the mentor side - is very difficult and very time-consuming (especially if we are going to push the kids to have a strong level of leadership). Literally, the more "power" you allow the kids to have, the more difficult it is to run the team. It's much easier to be a dictator.

* Changing adult leadership can be brutal for a team - especially if the "top dog" doesn't know much about the program and doesn't have strong support from more experienced mentors. Often, the top dog needs help, but does not realize it. I would suggest sitting down with the mentor and learning how s/he sees FIRST and how s/he would like to see the season unfold. Then, graciously and professionally, ask about differences that are important to you... Generally, there is somebody in FRC in your district or region who could be a resource for that person - either a district director or a team with more experienced mentors. For instance, our team often reaches out to other nearby teams when they have instability in their adult leadership or are simply a younger (rookie?) team, just to see if we can help them get through just this sort of situation.

* Whatever you do, remain Gracious and Professional - without being preachy! (Okay, I struggle with this part sometimes). Even if you completely disagree with where the lead mentor is taking the team, remember that s/he would not be doing it if s/he did not legitimately care and that s/he is putting in a huge amount of personal time - often at the expense of career and family.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

I run a very large team (typically about 100 students)... A few insights:

* As soon as the focus becomes "winning," we become miserable. When this becomes our focus, every single decision becomes more intense. Large numbers of students and mentors become attached to their "best" idea and it becomes extremely difficult to compromise on designs - or even hear one another out. We focus on Gracious Professionalism and working together. When this is the focus, it is much easier for a person to let go of their own "brilliant" idea and settle for something s/he considers "second best" when others believe it to be the "best."

* Kids cannot hold all the decision-making power. Let's face it: They are students and simply do not have the engineering knowledge and skills as our professional mentors. Students must have the humility to really listen to those with knowledge.

* Mentors cannot hold all the power, either. This is a kids' game and the kids need to play.... to have them sit back and watch while the mentors do all the thinking, strategizing, building, etc. undermines the purpose of FIRST and takes nearly everything away from the kids' experience.

* There must be a balance of power between kids and mentors - and that balance changes annually. Some years, we are lucky enough to have a strong core of 4th year students who can take over much of the responsibility. Other years, we have a lot of younger, inexperienced students and the mentors must have a stronger hand in leadership. No matter what the balance in any given year, the kids must have room to take a strong level of responsibility and make mistakes. If mentors always bail them out, the kids won't learn. Winning must be secondary. At the same time, when the kids excel, they should be rewarded with a strong robot. Our team wants to go to St. Louis every year and make a strong showing. However, as mentors, we are only going to make sure that the kids are going to have a robot that has a strong competitive shot at making to the PNW championships. If we are going to actually make it that far - or having a good showing and make it further, it's up to the kids to make it happen - and up to the mentors to point the way.

* We have found that decisions cannot be a straight-up vote with all the members. Annually, the largest group of kdis we have are first-year FIRSTers - freshmen. To leave major robot decisions up to them would be akin to Boeing leaving design decisions for their newest airplane up to interns. It's not going to happen. However, with a large team it is imperative that we give every member a voice. We then have a much smaller student/mentor group driving the decision-making process. When their is not a clear general consensus, we have a very small group of experienced students making the final call. We also emphasize Gracious Professionalism in that process - we know that not everybody can possibly get their way, so we really emphasize how to handle things when a decision goes the "wrong" way.

* Running an FRC team - from the mentor side - is very difficult and very time-consuming (especially if we are going to push the kids to have a strong level of leadership). Literally, the more "power" you allow the kids to have, the more difficult it is to run the team. It's much easier to be a dictator.

* Changing adult leadership can be brutal for a team - especially if the "top dog" doesn't know much about the program and doesn't have strong support from more experienced mentors. Often, the top dog needs help, but does not realize it. I would suggest sitting down with the mentor and learning how s/he sees FIRST and how s/he would like to see the season unfold. Then, graciously and professionally, ask about differences that are important to you... Generally, there is somebody in FRC in your district or region who could be a resource for that person - either a district director or a team with more experienced mentors. For instance, our team often reaches out to other nearby teams when they have instability in their adult leadership or are simply a younger (rookie?) team, just to see if we can help them get through just this sort of situation.

* Whatever you do, remain Gracious and Professional - without being preachy! (Okay, I struggle with this part sometimes). Even if you completely disagree with where the lead mentor is taking the team, remember that s/he would not be doing it if s/he did not legitimately care and that s/he is putting in a huge amount of personal time - often at the expense of career and family.

QFT.

[teachsail]

Originally Posted by anonymous_robot

Funny thing is when I try to lead by example everyone gets salty and starts thinking that we are ripping the team apart.

Then try a different approach. Don't think of yourself as a leader but as a servant. Avoid arguing and finger pointing. Be the worker your team needs. Train the rookies on the building of the robot and the team, not as a subverter of the leadership, but as a supporter.

Keep arguing with the mentors/coach and then you can have all these problems again next year with your new mentors/coach.

So your team didn't win an award or a regional. The majority of teams don't. Did everybody learn? Did we work together? Is everyone better prepared then we were before build season to not only build robots, but to grow into successful individuals?

This is a learning experience. Good Luck.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by teachsail

Then try a different approach. Don't think of yourself as a leader but as a servant. Avoid arguing and finger pointing. Be the worker your team needs. Train the rookies on the building of the robot and the team, not as a subverter of the leadership, but as a supporter.

Keep arguing with the mentors/coach and then you can have all these problems again next year with your new mentors/coach.

So your team didn't win an award or a regional. The majority of teams don't. Did everybody learn? Did we work together? Is everyone better prepared then we were before build season to not only build robots, but to grow into successful individuals?

This is a learning experience. Good Luck.

Well said.

When we started our team I had a lot to say. By golly, we were going to do things right. I had read a bunch of threads on Chief Delphi, got a lot of good advice, threw in a bunch of personal experience - boy, I knew exactly how we were going to run this team.

Well, it turns out, so did a bunch of other mentors. We have folks representing past experiences on probably 8 different FRC teams. Everyone's used to doing it one way, and everyone's used to that being the correct way. Everyone came in with different ideas and everyone's idea was different.

And you can see that as either extremely frustrating or see that as a beautiful thing. The latter does take some conscious choice.

There is not only one way to do this. My way is not the only way. The flipside to this is convincing mentor Bob that Bob's way is not the only way, telling senior student Joe that Joe's way is not the only way, getting folks to understand that Other_Amazing_Team's way is not the only way.

I will go on the record as saying that understanding this is a hugely important life lesson. (I will not, officially, go on the record as saying that I know some adults that still need to learn this lesson... )

The way will also change over time. The right path for my team this year might not be the right path for us next year. How will we know? I have no idea yet But I'll re-quote the questions above, because I think they're the most important:

Originally Posted by teachsail

Did everybody learn? Did we work together? Is everyone better prepared then we were before build season to not only build robots, but to grow into successful individuals?

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Well said.

When we started our team I had a lot to say. By golly, we were going to do things right. I had read a bunch of threads on Chief Delphi, got a lot of good advice, threw in a bunch of personal experience - boy, I knew exactly how we were going to run this team.

Well, it turns out, so did a bunch of other mentors. We have folks representing past experiences on probably 8 different FRC teams. Everyone's used to doing it one way, and everyone's used to that being the correct way. Everyone came in with different ideas and everyone's idea was different.

And you can see that as either extremely frustrating or see that as a beautiful thing. The latter does take some conscious choice.

There is not only one way to do this. My way is not the only way. The flipside to this is convincing mentor Bob that Bob's way is not the only way, telling senior student Joe that Joe's way is not the only way, getting folks to understand that Other_Amazing_Team's way is not the only way.

I will go on the record as saying that understanding this is a hugely important life lesson. (I will not, officially, go on the record as saying that I know some adults that still need to learn this lesson... )

The way will also change over time. The right path for my team this year might not be the right path for us next year. How will we know? I have no idea yet But I'll re-quote the questions above, because I think they're the most important:

This is also well said. Open-mindedness can go a LONG way to improving relationship on a team.