Robot Ramming

[schitnis]

Robot Ramming

Is Robot Ramming legal?

IF it is or if it is not, what limit of ramming is legal and what are the consequences of such intentional or unintentional damages caused?


Regards
schitnis
Team 915

[Jordan A.]

ramming is anticipated by FIRST

however intentional ramming with the intent to destruct is not tolerated.

If your bumping a robot out of the way to get a goal, probably fine. If your just smaking him hopping you knock something lose not fine.

I beleive the penalty is disqualification from the round, but could be wrong.

[schitnis]

people please reply

[s_alaniz]

I'd say ramming is illegal, incidental bumping or accidental crashing is ok, but that's a judgement call by the referees during the rounds so you will not see a universal interpertation of that rule. Just be prepared for the possibility that the bumping you do in one round may be illegal in another.
This brings up the main quirk in the 3x the loser's score system. Say someone runs into your robot, and/or your alliance partner's to the point the referee stops the game and disqualifies the other alliance. The result: You get the win, but you could end up with zero points or very low points for that round. I actually saw that happen two years ago when they had the same system in place. The offended team got the win but zero points which doesn't help them in their seeding placement.
Referees, scoring... it's all governed by the rule that states, "those whom the gods would destroy, they first make crazy!"


Best Wishes


Steve Alaniz





"You're saying we can look forward to robots behaving badly and demanding higher salaries." - Sally Forth

[Mark Hamilton]

according to First docs, If your opponent is disqualified you get 3x the winning teams score(i.e. you). Its in the rules somewhere.

[Mike Norton]

I'd say ramming is illegal

A robot can hit another robot as hard as he wishes if his attention is to move the robot to score points or to stop points.

So if you are in the open field and I wish to hit you hard to bring you into my scoring zone there is not much you can do about it.

Make a robot that will not break.

You will be hit or grabbed

[jonathan lall]

Think of it this way: You can hit them as much as you want, but not with intent to injure (i.e don't put a weapon on your robot) in the ref's opinion.

[Anthony S.]

Rule GM17 States: "Robot Shoving will be allowed and is expected to be quite common. It is very common for machines to bumb into each other at full speed, get into shoving mathces, and for arms and other mechanisms to experience the resultant forces. This should be taken into consideration when robots are designed and built."

I hope that clears up your question, that came straight from the Manuel. Good Luck!!

[JVN]

It seems to me that it's not the type of contact, or the duration that matters... it's the intent behind it... if your trying to do something else then ramming is okay, but if your out to do damage it's bad... the keyword here is "malicious"... if the ref thinks anything you do is malicious, it's not allowed...

[Hubicki]

To extend upon what John said, the referees will probably determine 'malicious intent' by judging the necessity of the action taken. For example, if your robot rams another to get them out of a robot zone or key position, then that action was necessary and thus justified. However, ramming them, shoving them into a wall, creating several 10 lb pieces of debris, may be considered as an unnecessary action and be penalized. Under most every circumstance, causing carnage and destruction will be deemed unnecessary and be worthy of a penalty. This definition allows most any action to be taken that is in the 'spirit of the game'. That's just my opinion of course.
~Hubicki~

[kevinw]

I hardly think that pinning a robot would be considered a necessary action, and yet the rules explicitly allow for robot pinning.

I also believe a case could very easily be made for moving a robot from one side of the field to the other.

I will find it interesting how judges will define malicious intent if one robot rams another with the intent of pinning or moving them. And if the intent is not to pin or move them, I will find it even more interesting how the judges decide what the intent actually was and whether it was malicious.

[Skanker]

Bumps happen.

IN MY OPINION: a robot careening into someone else's robot at full speed is illegal. I would say that nudging somebody out of the way or something along that likes is okay.

Just my opinion

[jonathan lall]

Well...the general consensus on our team about this vague rule, is that a robot can mess around with its opposition as long as it's not to actually hurt (damage) them. In other words, ramming and pinning are means of delaying and obstructing your opponents, though this really isn't recommended for both robots' sakes. I agree that FIRST should clarify this idea some more, though. But just try ramming 188. I dare you. Just steer clear of the cannon. You do know about the cannon, don't you?

[Joe Johnson]

In the end, I think that FIRST will tone down the ramming, but for the first few regionals, I think there will be a LOT of high speed hits.

It makes me shutter to think about it!

Joe J.

[JVN]

Dr. Joe,
Will ChiefDelphi have a bumper on CD7?
just curious...