FRC 5817 Shooter Prototype Teaser #2

[JesseK]

I dunno what all the hate about secrecy is - if it's competition-sensitive, then so be it. They're in CA, so any number of surrounding teams can reverse-engineer what they have from a crummy pixelated photo, quickly iterate on it, then use their own idea against them at the regional (supposing it really is novel).

I agree with Ike - no need to waste time on teasers until the bot is end-to-end functional.

[MARS_James]

Since this doesn't give away the design it is just a little hard to tell in the video, how high off the ground is your exit point, as in how tall is the shooter?

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

click bait

Watch How This Prototype Shoots a Foam Ball. 0:33 Seconds Had Me In Tears!

Whatever gravity gun you use to shoot the balls, you don't need to tell me! Just build a competitive and reliable robot that people can see later.

[philso]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

If anyone wants to see some true accuracy in practice, I think you'll really enjoy this video. Bonus, you can see their shooter isn't using a bench grinder!

-Mike

It is really cool how consistent 5817 have made their shooter. As Ike stated, getting it aimed at the goal properly, in competition will be the next challenge.

I agree with Michael that 1717's accomplishment is more impressive since they are showing the results of the whole system that drives around, picks up the balls, acquires the target then shoots, not just a shooter that has been aimed by hand and clamped down. The video Michael linked is one of three that 1717 published after the end of the 2012 season. In those three videos, they score every single one of about 200 shots. It also seemed that in those videos, the ball goes through the hoop just to the left of center, indicating that their whole system is capable of only around 2 inches of variability over the 200 shots.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by philso

It is really cool how consistent 5817 have made their shooter. As Ike stated, getting it aimed at the goal properly, in competition will be the next challenge.

I agree with Michael that 1717's accomplishment is more impressive since they are showing the results of the whole system that drives around, picks up the balls, acquires the target then shoots, not just a shooter that has been aimed by hand and clamped down. The video Michael linked is one of three that 1717 published after the end of the 2012 season. In those three videos, they score every single one of about 200 shots. It also seemed that in those videos, the ball goes through the hoop just to the left of center, indicating that their whole system is capable of only around 2 inches of variability over the 200 shots.

There is a HUGE difference being consistent with one ball versus all balls.

Once a ball has a few hundred shots on it they become much, much softer.

[Bruceb]

did anybody notice how chewed up those balls were? Chunks hanging off the sides is what I saw.

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

did anybody notice how chewed up those balls were? Chunks hanging off the sides is what I saw.

That was a result of shooting the balls with wheels that had tread ziptied to them. You'll notice that we did use multiple balls, and they were both torn up, one badly, one not so badly. We got rid of the zipties and it has not been nearly as bad since then. The chunks you saw hanging off the one ball were actually pieces of duct tape. The other one has some holes in the fabric, but that is all.

Also, the main purpose of this video was to showcase the power we were able to get. We have measured only 6 inches of arc from a linear path. We aren't expecting it to be the most accurate prototype shooter ever, as we aren't controlling speed in any way, just plugging the motors into a battery. We are expecting it to become more accurate as we use better bearings, wheels, add speed control, mount it to a sturdy frame, etc. We also weren't wasting much of our time with the teaser, as it was made outside of shop hours, took only 30 minutes, and the CAD design is already done. The only thing we can really do right now is prototype and wait for parts.

Finally, we are trying to avoid showing the shooter, as we don't want to give anything away yet regarding the other mechanisms of the robot . As JesseK said, we wouldn't want to see our own designs used against us!

[steelerborn]

I am really happy at the discussion that this has brought up, especially how many great veteran frc mentors have decided to chime in.

Yes we are a rookie team, but our mentors and teacher advisor I would say are some of the best in California. I understand that people want more details and that those will one day be released.

Also please keep in mind that being a rookie team puts us into a whole different boat than other teams at a regional event. Our number is high, we have no record to go off of, and people aren't necessarily going to know who we are at our events. By posting these videos while hiding key dimensions and ideas it allows us to build a hype for our team. Getting people interested in our theme, the quality of robots we produce, and how 5817 operates. We want people to know 5817 before we get to the event and see our level of play. That is all the videos were for and to show what is possible without just giving a clear answer.

Also being a rookie means that we are competing for the rookie all star award as well. Winning that award would mean so much to the students, and we want to keep our innovations a secret until the time is right.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by steelerborn

I am really happy at the discussion that this has brought up, especially how many great veteran frc mentors have decided to chime in.

Yes we are a rookie team, but our mentors and teacher advisor I would say are some of the best in California. I understand that people want more details and that those will one day be released.

Also please keep in mind that being a rookie team puts us into a whole different boat than other teams at a regional event. Our number is high, we have no record to go off of, and people aren't necessarily going to know who we are at our events. By posting these videos while hiding key dimensions and ideas it allows us to build a hype for our team. Getting people interested in our theme, the quality of robots we produce, and how 5817 operates. We want people to know 5817 before we get to the event and see our level of play. That is all the videos were for and to show what is possible without just giving a clear answer.

Also being a rookie means that we are competing for the rookie all star award as well. Winning that award would mean so much to the students, and we want to keep our innovations a secret until the time is right.

Thanks for the background Jon.

It would be awesome if you would be willing to share, at least, what your process was for reaching this point. Why do you want a shot with ~6" of drop from linear? What shooter options have you considered, tested, or designed? What constraints are you working under for this prototype? Height constraints, motor allocation, weight constraints, etc?

The bench grinder was brought up because many teams can grab 4 CIMs, strap them together, and make a shot like you've shown. The problem is, 4 CIMs in the shooter seems fairly impractical (and heavy), so most teams won't consider it. I'm sure this prototype is doing something NOT using 4 CIMs, but I know you're keep those sort of details under wraps.

Even if you can't share the design, we'd love to hear your process for reaching the point you're at, why you categorize this as a successful prototype, and what you would advise other teams to do with the lessons you've learned so far in your team's rookie year. I'm sure rookies, especially, would be inspired to hear a fellow rookie team's experiences.

Best,

-Mike

[ravenc83]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Whatever gravity gun you use to shoot the balls, you don't need to tell me! Just build a competitive and reliable robot that people can see later.

We use the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator MK3, a tractor beam-type weapon that was originally designed for handling hazardous materials, now used to launch foam balls on linear trajectories.

Thank you for the supportive post, these kiddos are working hard and we plan to make an impact on the field... both literally and "literally" (figuratively).

[D_Price]

ditto---now onto using the Death Star. May the force be with you.

Originally Posted by ravenc83

We use the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator MK3, a tractor beam-type weapon that was originally designed for handling hazardous materials, now used to launch foam balls on linear trajectories.

Thank you for the supportive post, these kiddos are working hard and we plan to make an impact on the field... both literally and "literally" (figuratively).

[IronicDeadBird]

I dunno what the fuss is here, zoom in and enhance on any students when the reflection of the safety glasses they are wearing is angled at the mechanism, Trace the brand of safety glasses and using a cad of said safety glasses overlay the reflection. Keeping in mind that you need to compensate for the magnus effect and the angle of sunlight in Guatamala you can clearly see what they are using for a mechanism.

On a serious note though that is looking wicked consistent, and has some interesting characteristics on how the ball actually flies through the air. Definitely going to want to see the full reveal though.

[Chief Hedgehog]

It is awesome that a second year team is already this far. Kudos to you 5817 - keep up the great work! I cannot wait to see what your team is up to.

Thanks for the inspiration for my own team to put together a solid shooter!

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

It is awesome that a second year team is already this far. Kudos to you 5817 - keep up the great work! I cannot wait to see what your team is up to.

Thanks for the inspiration for my own team to put together a solid shooter!

*First year.

Glad to help, and good luck with the shooter!

[philso]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Even if you can't share the design, we'd love to hear your process for reaching the point you're at, why you categorize this as a successful prototype, and what you would advise other teams to do with the lessons you've learned so far in your team's rookie year. I'm sure rookies, especially, would be inspired to hear a fellow rookie team's experiences.

This would actually be more valuable to others and "hype" your team possibly as much or more than winning a tournament. This is part of why many of the top teams are so well respected.

A lot of people will copy a design that they see and like but copying without understanding the reasoning behind the design decisions and the context and operating conditions will often yield sub-optimal results so why worry about it?