Defense Poll

[Fields]

I'm curious to see how this changes through the build season as designs are tested and changed.

[cmrnpizzo14]

You forgot to make the poll.

[bearbot]

No poll available

[Fields]

You guys were too quick. The site posted the thread while I was working on the poll

[Green Potato]

Dang it, I was going to make a poll like this and got beat to the punch.

Either way, even though this poll has only been up for, what, hours, I'm already seeing a trend: the class C obstacles are getting significantly less love than any other obstacle type, with a p-value for such a difference being essentially 0. (for those of you who aren't stat nerds, this serves as a very strong argument that the discrepancy in popularity isn't random) I wonder if this is because teams assume that they can always get a partner to help, because that would explain a LOT. Either way, I'd have to say this is very interesting, as once you get to the highest levels of play, It's unlikely you'll want to spend 2 robots' time for one robot to cross one defense.

If this trend holds, this'll be certainly something to consider going forward (at least, once snowmageddon is over).

[IronicDeadBird]

Yo wut? Sally port doing so poorly...

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Yo wut? Sally port doing so poorly...

I'm unsurprised by this. In our strategic analysis, we determined that there are 3 obstacles that can obviously be reliably crossed by the KOP drive train with no other additions:
1. The low bar
2. The Sally Port (ONLY from the courtyard)
3. The Drawbridge (ONLY from the courtyard)

With just a drive train you can drive through these obstacles from the courtyard to the neutral zone (Low Bar can conceivably be done in either direction). In order to cross them for points in the opposite direction alone, there is A LOT of investment of resources. And if you think creatively about a way to generate points by crossing it in a fashion that does not require the investment of all those resources, you can see why many teams would opt to not manipulate those defenses. Hint: you have partners.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

I'm unsurprised by this. In our strategic analysis, we determined that there are 3 obstacles that can obviously be reliably crossed by the KOP drive train with no other additions:
1. The low bar
2. The Sally Port (ONLY from the courtyard)
3. The Drawbridge (ONLY from the courtyard)

With just a drive train you can drive through these obstacles from the courtyard to the neutral zone (Low Bar can conceivably be done in either direction). In order to cross them for points in the opposite direction alone, there is A LOT of investment of resources. And if you think creatively about a way to generate points by crossing it in a fashion that does not require the investment of all those resources, you can see why many teams would opt to not manipulate those defenses. Hint: you have partners.

Yeah but the poll doesn't specify scoring its just what can you cross. It doesn't specify which side you cross either so maybe I'm just reading this question wrong.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Yeah but the poll doesn't specify scoring its just what can you cross. It doesn't specify which side you cross either so maybe I'm just reading this question wrong.

Well, I would imagine that any robot could drive through the sally port or drawbridge in the reverse direction.

I suspect a common move in each game will be - one robot scoots under the low bar to get to the other side, pushes open the sally port door or drawbridge, lets another (or two) robots through, and call it a day. They may even be ignored completely if the other 4 defenses are easier to breach.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Well, I would imagine that any robot could drive through the sally port or drawbridge in the reverse direction.

I suspect a common move in each game will be - one robot scoots under the low bar to get to the other side, pushes open the sally port door or drawbridge, lets another (or two) robots through, and call it a day. They may even be ignored completely if the other 4 defenses are easier to breach.

Even easier if the first robot is the spybot.

[MrJohnston]

No surprises here... However, the real question is: How many will actually be able to reliably cross those defenses come week one? How many of those that think they'll be cruising across the moat will find themselves in a rather embarrassing tortuga? Who will be the first to be high-centered by the rock wall? Whose will get their traction wheels inextricably wedged in the rough terrain? How long until the portcullis comes down between two sections of a robot, pinning it mercilessly? Will somebody forget to lower a manipulator before blasting under the low bar - only to be turned into a convertible? And, pity the poor soul who attempts to cross the cheval de frise with mecanum wheels and no manipulator...

I just hope it's not us....

[evanperryg]

Originally Posted by Fields

I'm curious to see how this changes through the build season as designs are tested and changed.

This will be interesting to compare to how many teams can actually do these things (*cough* moat *cough* cheval *cough*) We are developing mechanisms to handle the drawbridge and sally port, though we also will do driver practice on doing them collaboratively. I hope to see alliance partners holding the doors for allies, especially breachers holding doors for shooters who may find it much easier to go through these than under the low bar or over a B/D defense.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by MrJohnston

No surprises here... However, the real question is: How many will actually be able to reliably cross those defenses ...

Originally Posted by evanperryg

This will be interesting to compare to how many teams can actually do these things (*cough* ...

In the second week of build, teams' eyes are still properly larger than their stomachs. While astronomically it's garbage, teams should still symbolically "Shoot for the moon; if you miss, you'll land among the stars."

I fully expect us to get under the low bar, and cross category B and D defenses on our drive system (8 wheels 8" in diameter, 2 wheels at 4" diameter*, KoP 2015 chassis morphed to allow wheels in four planes, further modified with the "duck boat" wedge that AM should have available for sale on Monday, and gears swapped to lowest supported by the TB-mini). I rather expect us to be able to use our ball pickup in "double duty mode" to take us through both of the category A defenses, and category C is a much easier teamwork process than a single robot process. I am personally hoping that we can work out a teamwork autonomous that involves the spybot opening the category C defense for CROSSING by both of its alliance partners in the first fifteen seconds. I do not expect it during seeding, but I can always hope for it during eliminations.

*Current gearing is 12.75:1 for the 4" wheels, 25.5:1 for the 8" wheels. We have several "easy mod" changes we can implement.

[Robomarfa]

91 percent so far are planning on low bar. Fascinating. Only one in ten could be high goal shooters with a height advantage.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by Robomarfa

91 percent so far are planning on low bar. Fascinating. Only one in ten could be high goal shooters with a height advantage.

The top teams will be capable of going under the low bar and have a high release point.