Too Many Bumper Rule Threads

[bEdhEd]

I've noticed so many new bumper threads asking about the bumper rules that could be found in the manual. The most common question is regarding corners and the 8 inch rule. Then I searched "bumper" and limited my search to thread titles only. This is what I got:


From my count, 16 of the bumper threads are basically the same question, or can be easily found in the manual or answered by searching existing threads.

I understand why there are so many bumper threads though. This year, we have a bunch of rookie teams, more than ever before I believe, and we've just come from a previous season without bumpers. With this in mind, we have teams who were rookies last season and had never dealt with bumpers either, so it's like we have two waves of new teams who have never done bumpers.

I've felt like I've been seeing a new bumper thread nearly every day, and I think this needs to be addressed.

To all the new members of CD and new members of FRC, please consult the manual with a ctrl+f for anything specific you need to know. If you are still unclear, search in the FRC Q&A. If you're still feeling like your question is not answered, send me a private message, or send someone else who has responded to a bumper rule thread a private message (preferably someone who is an inspector) so we do not have to keep starting new threads that ask basically the same question.

I am not frustrated at all, I just wish to keep the forums more streamlined. I, like many others, check back on CD multiple times a day, and we wish to log on and see something new.

Also, newer members of CD, the sticky threads at the top of the General Forum are sticky for a reason. Read them, and you will be much better off. I remember not reading them until I was a member for a while, and I wish I had earlier. You'll have a much better forum experience.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by bEdhEd

I am not frustrated at all, I just wish to keep the forums more streamlined. I, like many others, check back on CD multiple times a day, and we wish to log on and see something new.

For me, seeing all these bumper threads is actually useful. As an LRI getting ready for a week-1 event, I need to know what to expect from teams and what our big problems are going to be as far ahead of time as possible... seeing so many questions about bumpers tells me that it's going to be a big problem come week-1! If all of those teams came here, searched, and left again without posting, then it wouldn't seem like nearly as big of an issue, and could fly under my radar. As it is, I have time to figure out a game plan for fixing bumpers on a dozen or more robots in a day!

[bEdhEd]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

For me, seeing all these bumper threads is actually useful. As an LRI getting ready for a week-1 event, I need to know what to expect from teams and what our big problems are going to be as far ahead of time as possible... seeing so many questions about bumpers tells me that it's going to be a big problem come week-1! If all of those teams came here, searched, and left again without posting, then it wouldn't seem like nearly as big of an issue, and could fly under my radar. As it is, I have time to figure out a game plan for fixing bumpers on a dozen or more robots in a day!

I'm glad you got something positive out of all the threads. I had not thought of it that way. I was willing to tolerate the bumper threads earlier because I knew that so many teams had not had made bumpers, however the amount of questions asking about what was already in the manual was getting a bit excessive in my opinion.

I know what it's like to mess up bumpers at the first competition. I think 2010 (first season of red/blue bumpers) was the first season that numbers had the strict stroke and height requirement. If this isn't true, then we just didn't read the number rule. But anyway, I was a rookie that season and was tasked with making the bumpers because I had come up with the reversible bumper idea independent of everyone else (I had not had a CD account yet). The BIG mistake I made was making the bumper numbers way too small, and we had to go to competition at Washington, DC and paint add-ons to the numbers to make them legal. It was not fun. This was my "bumper experience."

Now that I think of it, since you mention that all the bumper threads drew your attention to the bumper rules, maybe a more interesting discussion for teams who have not done bumpers is for the more seasoned members to share our "bumper experiences," cautionary tales of when bumpers rules weren't followed in which the problems were not fixed until after the first inspection.

If anyone wishes to share their "bumper experience" as I have, feel free. I am actually interested, and this could serve as a productive way to show new teams what NOT to do, considering how consistent bumper rules have been the past seasons.

Pictures of my "bumper experience."

As you can see, these numbers are FAR from legal in 2010 as well as 2016.



My rookie self in the pit corner re-doing these darn numbers. We went to a bumper skirt since our reversibles were kinda messy with me designing and sewing them my first time. Also, hardly anyone had done this at the time. I remember seeing only a couple other teams that season with reversibles.



The result was absolutely atrocious, but hey, they were legal and got us on the field.



Nowadays, I make sure to supervise the bumper building process, and now our bumpers and painted numbers are ON FLEEK. (yeah I know I shared this pic in a previous bumper post regarding embroidery, iron on, and paint number applications)

[PayneTrain]

The large number of bumper threads are indicative of a few things and it's subjective to say which of these factors causes the most strife.

-FIRST can't really figure out how to display bumper rules in the manual while simultaneously opening up and eliminating old, fundamental restrictions on the bumpers.

-Teams can't comprehend what the manual is trying to tell them because they don't really invest any effort into said comprehension.

-Bumper rules are inherently something that needs a lot of controls on them to cover all of the reasons the bumpers exist the way they do. They have to not only protect robots from other robots, but protect robots from the field, protect the field from robots, display the team number and alliance designation in a uniform location, and a tangential benefit of helping teams proof their robots for demos.

The best news I'm getting out of all of this is that questions are being answered in Week 3 of build season instead of Week 3 of competition season. We usually save the bumpers until much later than we usually execute on them (doing them now vs bag weekend). I know teams have set up bumper drives at events in the past; helping teams pass inspection with bumper kits and trained team members ready to fab and install them. If you are a team who wants to take the lead on it, please do so.

[EricH]

One of mine was in 2009. I was inspecting a team with a beautiful attachment system--they were using latches to hold their bumpers on--and an otherwise clean machine. Then I applied the MultiPurpose Bumper Measurement Jig (a template that would check bumper height and whether or not the trailer tongue would hit it, and to some extent proper bumper construction). Too low (or might have been too high). By less than an inch.

Somehow I don't think I was the most popular person in that pit at the time... but they did figure up something to pass inspection.



I've been holding off on posting it, but I've got a couple of images hopping around my computer of a "good" bumper configuration, and more to the point what the Frame Perimeter is in relation to the robot's frame (and where it would need bumpers!) I'll probably put that up in the next day or two, with the caveat that it is NOT official and NOT justification for being silly about trusting everything you see on the internet.

[GaryVoshol]

With no BUMPERS last year and a high number of rookie teams in the last two years, about half the team members out there have never worked with BUMPERS before. This year's juniors and seniors probably weren't team leaders 2 and 3 years ago and don't have much experience with BUMPERS either. I think that's why we are seeing more questions this year.

I think FIRST could help this by making a couple simple changes in the manual. I've pushed for years for them to add the word "tightly" to the line about wrapping a string around your ROBOT to show where the FRAME PERIMETER is. Something new would be for a blue box to say, "This means each side of the ROBOT goes from outside corner to outside corner, regardless if there is a gap in that side." Q&A is beginning to stress that the FRAME PERIMETER is a convex polygon by definition; now put that definition into the manual.