A Little Thought Experiment

[MysterE]

Hi everyone!

We had the opportunity to host our school-system's superintendent at our build site today. He brought along his asst. superintendent of high-schools as well as a few others to see how our program worked.

He asked me this question and I'd like to ask it from you:

"What would it take to make your program the best robotics program in the state - or in the South."

So, if you had to draft a plan to answer this question, and if money were 'relatively' no object, how would you setup that type of program?

-Daniel

[Jon Stratis]

In no particular order:

1. More mentors, especially ones that really know what they're doing. My experience shows that great teams have a lot of mentors - a large core group, plus even more "part timers".
2. Great shop space. Large, well equipped with mills, lathes, CNC machines, etc.
3. A well thought out system of support classes in the school. Corouter science, Engineering, CAD, even a robotics class. Someplace for the students to learn the specifics and background that you never have time to cover adequately during the season.
4. A solid feeder program, with FTC in every middle school and FLL in every elementary school.
5. Popular support from the student body. her the entire student body As behind the team as they are for the football team, and you'll build more interest and commitment.
6. A well-led parent support organization to assist with fundraising, feeding the team, building field elements, etc.

Those are the ones that come to me to start with.

[billbo911]

Jon may have prefaced this with "In no particular order:", but I say, he got the order exactly right!

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

In no particular order:

1. More mentors, especially ones that really know what they're doing. My experience shows that great teams have a lot of mentors - a large core group, plus even more "part timers".
2. Great shop space. Large, well equipped with mills, lathes, CNC machines, etc.
3. A well thought out system of support classes in the school. Corouter science, Engineering, CAD, even a robotics class. Someplace for the students to learn the specifics and background that you never have time to cover adequately during the season.
4. A solid feeder program, with FTC in every middle school and FLL in every elementary school.
5. Popular support from the student body. her the entire student body As behind the team as they are for the football team, and you'll build more interest and commitment.
6. A well-led parent support organization to assist with fundraising, feeding the team, building field elements, etc.

Those are the ones that come to me to start with.

[rfolea]

A place and supplies to build a full size FRC practice field. If he can donate a GYM with bleachers you could even host events there ...

[rich2202]

"best robotics" or "Best FRC robotics team"

I would turn it into a Class students can take for credit - A PLTW type class. In the class, you would learn about the mechanisms that go into a typical robot, brainstorming, prototyping, CAD, and have them build simple projects. Stuff that would help then in the real world. If there is enough material for a full year class, then the actual competition could be part of the class.

Separately, I would have the AP programming class spend the month after AP Tests (May) learning how to program the RoboRio, WPILIb, Github, etc.

In the feeder schools, build FLL and FTC programs. Maybe a Math/Science Elective for the Junior High School level.

[BrianAtlanta]

I would break the needs in to a few categories (not in priority order)...

TLDR:
1. Mentors
2. Location
3. Minor League system (ie Middle/Elementary schools doing robotics)


Mentors

A good program has mentors that have been around for a while, and understand FRC's challenges. This will allow them to better guide/nudge the students. There are several skills that are needed, so you need mentors with CAD, design, project management and programming. If the only mentors are parents, then every 2-3 years you have turn over and your skill coverage will be spotty depending on the type of jobs in the area.

Location

In know of teams that build in class rooms and build in a proper shop. A place large enough the build and drive is important. You don't have to have a full field, but something large enough simulate some of the key tasks. As for the "shop", I know at home it's a pain to have to go to the basement to get some tools, and to the garage to cut some wood. So a proper build space is nice.

District Support (ie the Minor League System)

When students are doing robotics challenges in elementary and middle school, they come in understanding some of the more simpler problems that they have to solve. They are more likely to have a knowledge of shooter, lifts and intakes from experience in VEX or FTC. FLL, they learn that without sensing their environment (line following, color sensors, etc) they can't drive reliably. Principals can encourage teachers to become mentors, too

So, there's my top 3.

Brian

[BrianAtlanta]

hmmm...I see a theme

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by rfolea

A place and supplies to build a full size FRC practice field. If he can donate a GYM with bleachers you could even host events there ...

I think this is the key. A building completely dedicated to coopetitive robotics (full fields, bleachers, associated hosting facilities; workshop space enough for multiple teams; auditorium; multiple computer labs; lots of trophy cases)

Also, support for dedicated curriculum. Whether it's a single class, a series of courses, a half or a full day, with dedicated, properly trained instructors & facilitators.

Basically, the same resources that schools already offer for athletics.

[IronicDeadBird]

Awareness and support. Anything else extra is a bonus.
My bets are actually on a solid website cause if that was grown correctly it would automatically grow more people, having a dedicated space and so on.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by MysterE

...snip...

"What would it take to make your program the best robotics program in the state - or in the South."

So, if you had to draft a plan to answer this question, and if money were 'relatively' no object, how would you setup that type of program?

-Daniel

My recommendation would be to offer example programs you could model of repeatedly successful teams.
I would recommend contacting the teams that regularly visit Einstein or at least the finals of their division at Worlds and ask them a handful of questions:

Describe build Space
Describe Mentor Support
Describe School Support
Describe student engagement
Describe parent engagement
Describe Sponsor support (parts/fab/more than money)
Describe robot development process (build season and competition season)
Describe Chairman's Effort
Describe who drives the team to excellence and what that looks like.
How often/long do they meet?
How many students and student/mentor ratio.
Ask them what they think makes them a great.

As an LRI I get to interact with a lot of teams. I have also personally visited and worked with a lot of great team. Their recipe for excellence uses a lot of similar ingredients, though proportions are often different, and not universal.
After several visitations, I am often asked, how does team XXX do such and such. Many are surprised by their differences.
One Einstein team I have talked to meets relatively infrequently, and for low durations compared to most top teams. When they do meet, they get an incredible amount done because they have incredible resources on hand and a great bunch of students and mentors that stay focused on the task at hand.
Some put in an insane amount of hours.
Others have a few very gifted individuals that are truly the backbone (and possibly whole skeletal system).
Still others have a process down. A process to prep students, a process for strategy, and a process for winning.

You will find "in the real world" the same thing. Companies that excel often have a lot of similar attributes, but often have a lot of different things about them too. Some are just the extension of the founders EGO and DRIVE for excellence.* Others have a development process that ensures excellence. Still others have a magnet for people that want to excel and be the best.

I have only talked to about half a dozen teams in depth, but have found a lot of similarities and a lot of surprising differences.

If your Super is really serious, have them not only send you to Worlds to talk to these teams, but ask if you can visit their build sites and talk with their mentors. It is often good to see the actual facilities and machines as one team's "small space" is another teams dream space. Also, some teams do some amazing robots with relatively junky equipment (IE lathes/mills marked for scrap previously and handdrills and hacksaws...) Try to talk with the core mentors, and ideally some of the kids too, but mentors build the dynasties, the kids support them**. I still have on my list a lot of teams I would like to visit. One of the neatest and most unique models (1717) unfortunately is no longer in the same format for me to see. If you can make your way up to Michigan, I should be able to facilitate some introductions and possibly site visits of several teams within an hour or so of Detroit Metro Airport.

It is also worth it to talk with some of the teams that just never seem to get it together. I have observed a handful of common themes there too. With the non-obvious issues being "not invented here" syndrome, which is closely related to "we will prove them all wrong" or "we push to win creativity award every year". I have nothing against creativity, but often it is pushed not for functional reasons, but solely for uniqueness which can change a creative solution to a novelty and sometimes a punch line.

*Note these companies tend to have "lost years" a while after the founder retires or exits the company. Many great FRC teams have followed this same arc.
**Most of the great teams I have talked to have a very high student engagement level usually with a lot of "supporting" level mentors and good processes for improving student skills. Often the robots are student built, but the students are mentor built....

[Dibit1010]

1. More mentors
2. Teaching what we need to do in engineering classes (pre-season is only so long)
3. The ability to tell others that they are on an ego trip
4. Actual studio equipment for imagery
5. A CAD software where more than one person could work on the same model at one time

[gblake]

That question was VERY vague.

The best at doing what?

Winning FRC matches is not how FRC teams earn the Chairman's award; and there is way more to "robotics" (and educating/inspiring students) than FRC.

I recommend collaborating with your community to come up with a plan for transforming your community. It will be the hardest fun you ever have, and will pay off wildly for you and anyone else who joins you.

Blake

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by gblake

That question was VERY vague.

The best at doing what?

Winning FRC matches is not how FRC teams earn the Chairman's award; and there is way more to "robotics" (and educating/inspiring students) than FRC.

I recommend collaborating with your community to come up with a plan for transforming your community. It will be the hardest fun you ever have, and will pay off wildly for you and anyone else who joins you.

Blake

I imagine the question was left vague for a reason.

[Sami07]

1) Time to work during the school day, maybe in the form of a class so us students could get credit.
2) Integrate FIRST into the education system. From my view point, I have learned many skills that I wouldn't have learned in a typical High School class.
3) More equipment and space.
4) More collaboration and volunteering of FRC students with FTC and FLL teams.
5) Overall community support, spreading FIRST values within the community showing the impact this program has on its members.
6) FIRST FRC varsity letters

[gblake]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I imagine the question was left vague for a reason.

Hence my suggestion that the OP should think broadly, and not focus too much on the one thing that happens to be in front of his nose at that one moment.

FRC tunnel vision, and FIRST tunnel vision, are afflictions that run rampant at this time of the year, for obvious reasons.