Playing well with others while scaling the tower

[Jared Russell]

How often did 3 robots on an alliance all hang in 2010?

That was a much simpler game (fewer things to do/less tradeoffs to make) and hanging/suspending was the single most valuable robot action, points wise. The rules on robot expansion were more lenient (84" diameter cylinder during the endgame), there were 4 sides/corners for teams to find space, and there were multiple options for hanging (vertical or horizontal bars).

I would love to see all 3 robots scale the tower regularly, but I think it will fall into the "there's a Chief Delphi post every time it happens" category of rarity.

[glennword]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

How often did 3 robots on an alliance all hang in 2010?

That was a much simpler game (fewer things to do/less tradeoffs to make) and hanging/suspending was the single most valuable robot action, points wise. The rules on robot expansion were more lenient (84" diameter cylinder during the endgame), there were 4 sides/corners for teams to find space, and there were multiple options for hanging (vertical or horizontal bars).

I would love to see all 3 robots scale the tower regularly, but I think it will fall into the "there's a Chief Delphi post every time it happens" category of rarity.

In 2010, there weren't nearly as many teams as we have now, there were not nearly as many gearbox/motor/mechanism COTS options available, and there were not as many web based/otherwise easily accessible design and knowledge resources. FIRST is growing, and with it the average quality of teams. That's the nature, and arguably the goal, of any competition; improvement.

[Citrus Dad]

I have a different but related questions. With Rule G28, will offensive teams chase around defending bots in the Courtyard to get credit for scaling the castle?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

I have a different but related questions. With Rule G28, will offensive teams chase around defending bots in the Courtyard to get credit for scaling the castle?

If it's obvious that they're chasing, it's more likely to be a G11 than a G28. If the D-bot is in their way in the path to the tower and doesn't get out, however...

I suspect that D-bots will start diving for the Secret Passage or Group C defenses at some point around 25 seconds left in the match. Maybe the Low Bar.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

How often did 3 robots on an alliance all hang in 2010?

That was a much simpler game (fewer things to do/less tradeoffs to make) and hanging/suspending was the single most valuable robot action, points wise. The rules on robot expansion were more lenient (84" diameter cylinder during the endgame), there were 4 sides/corners for teams to find space, and there were multiple options for hanging (vertical or horizontal bars).

I would love to see all 3 robots scale the tower regularly, but I think it will fall into the "there's a Chief Delphi post every time it happens" category of rarity.

All of these points are legit. This year will be more like 2013, the year that no one climbed above the first rung.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

All of these points are legit. This year will be more like 2013, the year that no one climbed above the first rung.

For what it's worth, of the final 8 alliances (division finalist and winners), half had a robot that climbed above the first rung (two alliances actually had two). There were a lot of really good robots that won a lot of events/matches by climbing in 2013. I actually think this year will be similar to 2013 in that there will be several viable strategies or alliance compositions that will win.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

For what it's worth, of the final 8 alliances (division finalist and winners), half had a robot that climbed above the first rung (two alliances actually had two). There were a lot of really good robots that won a lot of events/matches by climbing in 2013. I actually think this year will be similar to 2013 in that there will be several viable strategies or alliance compositions that will win.

This was precisely the reason that 1114 initially shocked everyone in 2013 by not having a floor pickup in favour of having a 30pt climber.

They knew that:

a) They were Pre-Qualified as an Einstein team in 2012, and as such didn't need to win a regional to qualify
b) 7 disc autos were a thing that only one team on an alliance could do, and having 2 7disc autos on your alliance was of no benefit.
c) 7 disc autos would be fairly common among top seeded teams at CMP
d) Reliable, fast, 30pt climbers would be rare, and thus of high value to a 7disc auto alliance captain.

Their plan worked, too. They were the #1 alliance captain's first pick. They just ran into some bad luck between there and Einstein.

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by Racer26

This was precisely the reason that 1114 initially shocked everyone in 2013 by not having a floor pickup in favour of having a 30pt climber.

They knew that:

a) They were Pre-Qualified as an Einstein team in 2012, and as such didn't need to win a regional to qualify
b) 7 disc autos were a thing that only one team on an alliance could do, and having 2 7disc autos on your alliance was of no benefit.
c) 7 disc autos would be fairly common among top seeded teams at CMP
d) Reliable, fast, 30pt climbers would be rare, and thus of high value to a 7disc auto alliance captain.

Their plan worked, too. They were the #1 alliance captain's first pick. They just ran into some bad luck between there and Einstein.

How do you know what 1114 was thinking? If you are going to make points like this I would really like to see a source for this information. Because I don't think you really know what they were actually thinking.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

How do you know what 1114 was thinking? If you are going to make points like this I would really like to see a source for this information. Because I don't think you really know what they were actually thinking.

I know this because I personally spoke to several members of their team about their design decisions. A conversation I started because it struck me as odd at the time that they would choose to do something that would make it difficult for them to seed #1.

[anishde]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

How often did 3 robots on an alliance all hang in 2010?

It was rare - to say in the least. As far as I remember, it never happened at a regional, and happened only 2-3 times at nationals. 2 robots hanging was much easier, but still not exactly commonplace.

[Racer26]

I can certainly remember 1114, 2056, and 1547 all hanging multiple times during the elims at GTR on their way to the Champion title.

Link: https://youtu.be/N-Nf85hDx4Y

[anishde]

Originally Posted by Racer26

I can certainly remember 1114, 2056, and 1547 all hanging multiple times during the elims at GTR on their way to the Champion title.

Link: https://youtu.be/N-Nf85hDx4Y

My mistake. I thought the previous response was talking about three robots hanging FROM EACH OTHER, which would have been quite a feat.