How many balls will you shoot during autonomous?

[MrJohnston]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I think you mean if you can manage to put two additional boulders in the tower and CHALLENGE in the time it would take you to scale. Since you'd be foolish to miss the capture bonus and CHALLENGING, while trivial, does take a finite amount of time to execute.

I think I said that in the message you quoted.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I think actually scoring a ball in auto will be a commendable action.

Single-ball seems straightfoward for a consistent shooter. The audience and opponents will inevitably help out:
Category A: Portcullis may be slow, but easy to get consistent. Given the width of the defense and the width of typical robots, each bot on an alliance would be on its own (unlike category C). Cheval De Frise will be faster, but it's easy for the robot to come off at an angle and become misaligned.
Category B: Single ball shooters will laugh when the moat is put in front of them and cry when the ramparts are put in front of them.
Category C: They're slow to get through no matter what, but patience with autonomous mechanisms will inevitably show the way. Also don't rule out a team bringing one down for the partner in autonomous, then following that partner through. It will be fun to watch this happen.
Category D: Rock Wall has a bit of indeterminate behavior depending on high-siding of the drive train, but should be consistent if the drivers are precise in robot orientation when they set the bot down. Rough terrain is easy once a good path is figured out, but that also requires proper setup of the robot.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Getting to those specific spots without losing position accuracy while crossing the various defenses is an immense challenge that teams seem to be consistently underestimating.

Quoted for truth. The most improbable part of a 2-ball auto is the part where you cross a defense, then cross back and find a gray ball on a gray carpet in a specific location. Without crossing the midline, if you're grabbing a midline boulder.

[Turing'sEgo]

Is anyone considering scoring their teammate's boulder in autonomous (given that they aren't planning on scoring it)? It seems that this is a safer alternative than getting a boulder from the center and risking G13, and it will accrue the same amount of points.

[philso]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Quoted for truth. The most improbable part of a 2-ball auto is the part where you cross a defense, then cross back and find a gray ball on a gray carpet in a specific location. Without crossing the midline, if you're grabbing a midline boulder.

And then cross a DEFENSE a third time. That's three opportunities to Tortuga...

Originally Posted by Turing'sEgo

Is anyone considering scoring their teammate's boulder in autonomous (given that they aren't planning on scoring it)? It seems that this is a safer alternative than getting a boulder from the center and risking G13, and it will accrue the same amount of points.

This would probably be a safer option up till Division Eliminations at Championship.

[Sunshine]

A one boulder score from spy bot will be common by week 1

A one boulder score from low bar bot will be common by week 1

A two boulder score from teams that dialogue with each other will occur by week 3. Especially from those with rear ball intakes working with those who have front ball intakes. But it will be a feat claimed by advnced programming and sensors.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I think actually scoring a ball in auto will be a commendable action.

I think an alliance surpassing a 30 point auto at any district in our region is literally not going to have a chance in hell. When I meant commendable, I meant top 1% of teams.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I think an alliance surpassing a 30 point auto at any district in our region is literally not going to have a chance in hell. When I meant commendable, I meant top 1% of teams.

Such a pessimist

[Paul Copioli]

The 3 Boulder Auton is the Lochness Monster of 2016. Many people will claim it, but no one will actually achieve it.

Now, I have been wrong before....

[Turing'sEgo]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

The 3 Boulder Auton is the Lochness Monster of 2016. Many people will claim it, but no one will actually achieve it.

Now, I have been wrong before....

I could forsee this happening: Robot A goes under the low bar and scores in the high goal. Robot B, discharges it's bot gently on the floor and moves away. Robot A goes back, picks it up, scores it. Robot C is the spy bot and also gently puts its ball on the ground in a convenient place. Robot A picks that ball up (as it's right next to it), and score it too.

Even that would be a time crunch.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Turing'sEgo

I could forsee this happening: Robot A goes under the low bar and scores in the high goal. Robot B, discharges it's bot gently on the floor and moves away. Robot A goes back, picks it up, scores it. Robot C is the spy bot and also gently puts its ball on the ground in a convenient place. Robot A picks that ball up (as it's right next to it), and score it too.

Even that would be a time crunch.

We managed that kind of autonomous, just, with the Wired Cats (2415) in 2012. They had a good shooter and 270 degree intake. All that 57 and 3997 had to do was feed them balls from the back and side at the right times to avoid controlling >3. And in our case, drive forward and tip the bridge to steal those balls. We JUST managed to get this programmed and tested over lunch. And 15 seconds was just about enough time to get it done. Grainy video evidence here. So a successful 3 robot rube-goldberg auton in which all of the robots started perfectly positioned and none of the robots moved before the ball hand-off. And yes, it was 6 shots instead of 3, which would be slightly more time consuming. But still. 3 robots perfectly positioned, not moving.

But your thing? Yeah, I can see whipping that autonomous ballet out over lunch. I can't wait for the grainy video evidence for that one.

[Poseidon5817]

Originally Posted by Turing'sEgo

I could forsee this happening: Robot A goes under the low bar and scores in the high goal. Robot B, discharges it's bot gently on the floor and moves away. Robot A goes back, picks it up, scores it. Robot C is the spy bot and also gently puts its ball on the ground in a convenient place. Robot A picks that ball up (as it's right next to it), and score it too.

Even that would be a time crunch.

I don't think that three-ball strategy would be possible for almost all robots, as it would require multiple precise turns to intake the different balls and score (unless you have a two-sided intake ), which would be nearly impossible without going under the low bar, and even then it would be difficult. I almost think that two midline balls would be easier to intake and score for most teams than that. The sheer amount of variability and the amount of work to program that routine would not be worth the extra 10 points compared to a two-ball. In some matches, your alliance partners may even be able to score one ball, easily making up the difference.

[alexpell00]

this is a little off topic, but wouldn't you get the same number of point by crossing and extra defense as scoring a second ball?

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by alexpell00

this is a little off topic, but wouldn't you get the same number of point by crossing and extra defense as scoring a second ball?

You can only get points for crossing a single defense in auto. Any additional defenses that you cross grant no points and does not it reduce it's strength.

[Dezion]

Personally, I believe that scoring two balls in autonomous will be unlikely for the majority of the competition season. It will more than likely not occur for the first few weeks and may become rare later.

One, you would somehow have to have a robot to retrieve the ball from the Midline without incurring a G13 infraction. This is possible to do, however extremely unlikely. After you score the first boulder, you will have to traverse a defense for the second time, which increases your chances of not lining up for the ball properly. (This will depend on your sensors for getting the ball.)

Two, consider other robots in autonomous. Your robot would have to avoid colliding with other robots, which would ruin both your autos. How do you plan on preventing his? (At least in Quals, I see preventing it very difficult; in Elims it could be possible do to better strategy and general better robots.)

Third, for a team considering picking up a boulder that an alliance member dropped, how do you plan on coordinating this? The alliance partner would have drop it roughly in the same spot, and it's possible that the boulder will roll away from the intended area. As well, it's possible that they may collide. (Possible in Elims, however I see it as very unlikely.)

tl;dr Shooting two (or even more) boulders will be very unlikely, and difficult, however possible and the best teams will be able to surpass the challenge.