ratio of 2-ball autos to G13 infractions

[Caleb Sykes]

This poll is amusing to me. Clearly CD polls mean very little, so we may as well make another one!

What will be the ratio of successful 2-ball autos to G13 infractions this year? I'm not interested in attempts at two-ball routines, both balls scored is the only thing that counts.

[MrJohnston]

First... I am assuming that you are eliminating G13 infractions that occur when robots are not attempting 2-boulder auto routines....

There will likely be more successful auto routines than infractions because:
* Most teams will not even attempt a 2-boulder auto. Those that do will generally know what they are doing.
* Teams with a 2-boulder auto will generally know whether or not it will work before they get to the court. If it's not working, they will just do a much simpler 1 boulder shot.
* Because of the penalty for failure, teams who are not comfortable with their routine, will not try it in a match.
* Some attempts at the routine will fail elsewhere (getting hung up in a defense, for instance) and not have the opportunity to cross the mid-line.

[JesseK]

I double-double-double dog dare opponents to put the wrong defense in the middle .

The sequencing to prevent a [G13] penalty seems pretty straightforward. Whether or not a ref suffers from parallax in calling [G13] is another thing. For Worlds it seems like we'll need a 'foul line' sensor like what the sport of bowling has.

[IronicDeadBird]

Why would teams pull a G13 from a well planned 2 ball auto?

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Why would teams pull a G13 from a well planned 2 ball auto?

Early attempts on the actual FRC field will cause robot wheels to slip. Later attempts to 'race' the opponents will cause robot momentum to move the robot too far. So [G13] is inevitable in making the attempt for a 2-ball autonomous, even with a well-refined autonomous, IMO.

It's easy to make up 5 points of fouls for grazing the auto line, but not so easy if contact is made with the opponents. So the risk/reward is there to 'race' the opponent and to attempt the 2-ball before the robot is 100% perfect.

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Early attempts on the actual FRC field will cause robot wheels to slip. Later attempts to 'race' the opponents will cause robot momentum to move the robot too far. So [G13] is inevitable in making the attempt for a 2-ball autonomous, even with a well-refined autonomous, IMO. It's easy to make up 5 points of fouls for grazing the auto line, but not so easy if contact is made with the opponents. So the risk/reward is there to 'race' the opponent and to attempt the 2-ball before the robot is 100% perfect.

Oddly specific case but okay. I can tell you right now some teams are going to do a 2 (or potentially more) ball auto without ever pulling a G13.
These students are crafty sons of guns....
They appear to be learning...

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird

Oddly specific case but okay. I can tell you right now some teams are going to do a 2 (or potentially more) ball auto without ever pulling a G13.
These students are crafty sons of guns....
They appear to be learning...

Sure they're crafty, but does physics agree with them? Is their autonomous accurate to within less than an inch? Even if so, will it be blatantly obvious to a ref on the center line that they're not a hair over?

Seems like a gentleman's bet is in order...

[Caleb Sykes]

Apparently, I did not make the range large enough.

[jkelleyrtp]

Wait is no one else attaching a shopvac to the back of their robot?

[IronicDeadBird]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Sure they're crafty, but does physics agree with them? Is their autonomous accurate to within less than an inch? Even if so, will it be blatantly obvious to a ref on the center line that they're not a hair over?

Seems like a gentleman's bet is in order...

Alright the way I would phrase the bet is like this.
I would be that any team that follows the method our team is planning on using for a 2 ball auto would not pull a g13 for any reason but stupidity.
Even in failing the 2 ball auto we would not pull a g13.
Basically if we flop and pull a g13 we deserve it.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Sure they're crafty, but does physics agree with them? Is their autonomous accurate to within less than an inch? Even if so, will it be blatantly obvious to a ref on the center line that they're not a hair over?

Seems like a gentleman's bet is in order...

Getting within an inch is not terribly difficult as long as you start your robot in the same position consistently, and who says you even need to be within that margin?

[MaGiC_PiKaChU]

I'm starting to think getting a G13 might be worth it.

single ball + cross = 20 points
2 balls + cross + g13 = 25 points (30 to you and 5 to the opponents)

The last boulder would give only a 5 point advantage, but you get to weaken the tower by 1 more boulder every match.

[Turing'sEgo]

A safer alternative would be to score an alliance partner's boulder (that wasn't planning on scoring it in autonomous). I'm willing to bet that we won't see 3 robots on an alliance score their boulders until late into the season. It'll get you the same amount of points, and without the risk of G13.

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by Turing'sEgo

A safer alternative would be to score an alliance partner's boulder (that wasn't planning on scoring it in autonomous). I'm willing to bet that we won't see 3 robots on an alliance score their boulders until late into the season. It'll get you the same amount of points, and without the risk of G13.

This seem harder than in previous years because this year requires the ball to be off the floor to start.

[Turing'sEgo]

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung

This seem harder than in previous years because this year requires the ball to be off the floor to start.

It is a harder task, but is it harder than picking up from the middle of the field without being called for G13? You get your schedule ahead of time, you do some pre scouting and ask a team that isn't planning on scoring their boulder in autonomous to gently place it on the ground for you. It takes coordination, which may be difficult, but it is a safer alternative and in my opinion easier to execute than picking up from the mid line as it doesn't require your autonomous to be perfect down to centimetres.