What way does the Cheval de Frise go?

[Hallry]

This is an odd question to be asked in the middle of Week 4, but here it goes...

What way does the Cheval de Frise go?

In the Game Manual and official field drawings, it's positioned as so:


So, when looking at the Cheval from the Neutral Zone, the panels are positioned as "Down - Up - Down - Up". The panel on the right is positioned away from you.

But, on the official field in the game reveal video as well as in the field tour videos, it looks like this:


Here, the panels are "Up - Down - Up - Down" when viewed from the Neutral Zone. The right panel is positioned towards you.

I feel that the Game Manual might be in the wrong in this case. Simply turning the Cheval around wouldn't solve the problem, it's the panels themselves that would need to be switched. What are others' thoughts on this?

EDIT: We have submitted the following question on the official Q&A:

According to FE-00039 in the 2016 Field Assembly document and 2016 Game Manual Figure 2-1, the Cheval de Frise is positioned so the panels are oriented “Down-Up-Down-Up” when viewed left-right. However, on the field shown in the FIRST STRONGHOLD Game Reveal and Field Tour videos posted on the FRCTeamsGlobal YouTube Channel the panels are oriented "Up-Down-Up-Down." Can you confirm that the orientation shown in the Field Assembly document and Game Manual is correct?

I will post an update in this thread once the question has been answered.

[Anthony Galea]

I think the Q&A would be the best way to go here, but without the insight of the Q&A, I would think the manual takes precedence, however the rock wall dimensions have proved that wrong.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

I think the Q&A would be the best way to go here, but without the insight of the Q&A, I would think the manual takes precedence, however the rock wall dimensions have proved that wrong.

I agree with this but want to note that the field drawings of the cheval de frise match the manual with regards to orientation.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by 3175student17

I think the Q&A would be the best way to go here, but without the insight of the Q&A, I would think the manual takes precedence, however the rock wall dimensions have proved that wrong.

Every year the animation has a robot which violates the "intentional contact inside the frame perimeter" rule. This year that rule is [G24]. This year one of the robots in the animation had a battering ram that had only one obvious function: "communicate" with other teams, regardless of [G24].

I do believe the field drawings themselves take precedence over the manual, which takes precedence over the animation/field tour.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Every year the animation has a robot which violates the "intentional contact inside the frame perimeter" rule. This year that rule is [G24]. This year one of the robots in the animation had a battering ram that had only one obvious function: "communicate" with other teams, regardless of [G24].

I do believe the field drawings themselves take precedence over the manual, which takes precedence over the animation/field tour.

Yes but....By that logic, the Rock Wall should have never changed. All dimensions were consistent between the team drawings, official drawings and the manual. The only way the discrepancy was found was through measurements taken on the built field in Manchester at kickoff.

In this case, I wouldn't necessarily treat the animation as having any bearing, but the video of the real field is again discrepant with the manual and drawings.

I don't expect this issue to be quite as hard to resolve (after all it's just the order of the planks), but if the real field differs from the documentation, we'd want to know.

Fwiw, the defenses are all keyed so they can't be installed "backward".

I am kind of curious how many robot designs actually care about the order, vs just wanting to practice on the right thing. Seems like a pretty specific, asymmetrical design is required, but I've seen stranger things...

[dradel]

I also would be curious to know what Q&A has to say.

[GeeTwo]

Waiting on the Q&A reply. It looks like they built this one wrong like the rock wall, but correction shouldn't be limited by the contractor's tools.

[BenGuy]

That's a great point. Please post it here if anyone hears back from Q and A regarding this to let us know. Thanks.

[Mike dennis]

And we have an answer.

Q&A

[Taylor]

Interesting. I wonder how they got the real-life version wrong, since as has been mentioned, the orientation isn't reversible.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Interesting. I wonder how they got the real-life version wrong, since as has been mentioned, the orientation isn't reversible.

If there is one observation to make about the game design from the outside this year, it's that the field's complexity contributed to drawings not being locked in until beyond the last minute. It's possible the field they set up for the videos didn't have the casters and the "keying" function built in yet.

[Mike dennis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

If there is one observation to make about the game design from the outside this year, it's that the field's complexity contributed to drawings not being locked in until beyond the last minute. It's possible the field they set up for the videos didn't have the casters and the "keying" function built in yet.

Just rotating this won't fix it, it needs to be disassembled and corrected. Another example of field inconsistencies I haven't seen anyone else bring up is the Sally port. The metal support bar on the back is completely different between a photo posted in the Sally Port thread of a kickoff official field and the one in the field tour video.

Edit: Link to post mentioned. Here

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Mike dennis

Just rotating this won't fix it, it needs to be disassembled and corrected. Another example of field inconsistencies I haven't seen anyone else bring up is the Sally port. The metal support bar on the back is completely different between a photo posted in the Sally Port thread of a kickoff official field and the one in the field tour video.

Edit: Link to post mentioned. Here

I know, it's almost like

the field's complexity contributed to drawings not being locked in until beyond the last minute

or something.

I don't understand what you thought I was trying to say. There were (small but noticeable) changes made after the field tour videos were published.

[Mike dennis]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant was that rotating the CDF won't make them face a different way. Then gave another example proving your point further.

[Christopher149]

If the Cheval de Frise is down-up-down-up, then figures 2-5 and 2-7 in the manual are wrong (showing up-down-up-down).

Originally Posted by Q757

Confirmed. The Field Drawing and Game Manual display the correct orientation.

The manual shows two different orientations.