[YMTC]: Assisting a CROSSING

[EricH]

Standard disclaimer: As with any YMTC thread, all opinions expressed are unofficial. Please try to back up "rulings" with rules.

It's the quals at the Magnolia Regional. You're busy reffing a match when Blueabot1 executes a Tortuga maneuver on one of the RedaDefenses. Shortly afterwards, Blueabot2 follows suit on a different RedaDefense. Seeing this, Blueabot3 charges out of their own courtyard by the shortest possible route to try to free one or both of its partners... and promptly Tortugas in its own Moat. (Shoulda gone over the Berm, right? )

RedaBot1, seeing this, exits the Blue Courtyard via the Group C defense and pushes first Blueabot1, then Blueabot2, gently over the RedaDefenses into the Red Courtyard, then the RedAlliance avoids using the Moat until Blueabot2 picks Blueabot3 out of it with a good solid shove. The crowd goes wild!

As a ref, You Make The Call! A rule (or more than one) may have been violated here. Which rule, and do you call the foul or not?

[CalTran]

Rule(s) being violated:

Originally Posted by G43

ROBOTS on the same half of the FIELD as their ALLIANCE TOWER may nor interfere with opponents ROBOTS attempting to traverse OUTER WORKS (regardless of direction). A ROBOT is considered traversing the opponent's OUTER WORKS if any part of its BUMPERS are within the opponent's OUTER WORKS and no part of it is in their opponent's SECRET PASSAGE.
Violation: Foul. For every five (5) seconds in which the situation is not corrected, FOUL

Blue box defining interference.

If you're a particularly grumpy ref,

Originally Posted by G25

A ROBOT may not attempt to stop or impede the flow of the MATCH in any of the following ways:
D. coordinating a blockade of the FIELD with ALLIANCE members
Violation: YELLOW CARD for the ALLIANCE

Thus, technically, the penalties would be two Fouls for RedaBot1, and possibly a Yellow Card for the Blue Alliance.
However, I don't believe you make the call on the fouls for RedaBot1, because while they did violate G43, they did not violate it with the intention of interfering with a failed crossing.

[GeeTwo]

If I were alliance captain, I might convict them of treason without trial, but as a referee:

• Assisting is not interfering, so G43 is not an issue.
• The intent of the blue robots was not to obstruct but to cross, so G25 is not applicable.

Personally, I'd probably make four buttons reading "GP to a fault" after the competition and mail them to the team to present to the drive crew.

[EricH]

Just to further muddy the waters... The RedaDefenses that Blueabot1 and Blueabot2 got stuck on were not yet Damaged. This, of course, means that those two robots may be eligible to get some pointage after Redabot1 applies the push.

Do the Blueabots get the points? This on top of the previous question (what fouls get dished out). And, as a secondary question, does whether BlueAlliance gets the points affect any answers about fouls?


I'll probably put my personal opinion in sometime tomorrow.

[rich2202]

G43 is a foul, regardless of intent. The purpose of the rule is that you can't inhibit the other team from crossing. The implementation of the rule is "contact" with the one exception of bot simultaneously in the Outer Works and Secret Passage. So, Redbot gets a foul for contacting Bluebot while it is in Red Defense. Where I would be lenient is that I would call one foul for the entire process, and not each time Red contacted Blue.

Crossings are scored regardless of who caused it. So, if Red pushed Blue into Red's Courtyard, then it is a successful cross (assuming that Blue met all the other requirements for a crossing).

[Taylor]

Referees are friendly, and readily accessible. If I was the redabot drive coach or human player, I'd grab the nearest zebra and ask for permission to execute the maneuver.

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I'd grab the nearest zebra and ask for permission to execute the maneuver.

In the past, during the game, Ref's have not been in the Castle zone, so grabbing a ref will be difficult. If you do, that Ref would have to communicate with the Ref scoring the fouls, and the Head Ref. By the time they decide (if they decide, and are not busy watching the game in action) you have wasted a lot of the Teleop Time.

[BigJ]

The grump in me would ask for RedaTeam1 to be investigated for a T8

[EricH]

Here's my personal opinion: Redabot1 is NOT interfering with a traverse attempt--they're ASSISTING it.

So:
Blueabot1, Blueabot2, Redabot2, and Redabot3: No fouls. (They aren't doing anything wrong. At least in this scenario.) Blueabot1 and Blueabot2 get 5 points apiece for Crossing.

Blueabot3: No foul. All he did was to get stuck in his own defense, and red stayed away by choice. (If they hit him, G43 per hit.) I'd say that G25 doesn't apply at all, as this isn't coordinated.

Redabot1: Eligible for 2x G43 fouls, due to bumping a robot trying to traverse one of their defenses on two occasions. However, as noted, this is an assist... and dare I say that blue boxes aren't part of the rules, but are meant to clarify rules? If Blueabots ended up taking a nosedive or two, sure, call fouls.


My personal opinion is that no foul gets called (the crossing points are the same as a foul on Red anyways) but the team gets a chat with the refs afterwards about "great job, but don't do that again". And somebody ought to slide a note to the blue polos about how Redateam1 is such a gracious professional that they should get an award...

However, I'd probably have to call those two G43s (and then see about that note).

Unfortunately for BigJ's T8 grump, I would guess that Redateam1 acted on their own...