New Machine Shop

[ttakashima]

Hello CD Community

I am looking for assistance in choosing the best products to stock team 4270s new machine shop.

What we have:
JET JTM 1050EVS Manual Mill with 3 axis DRO
JET JTM 1050 with ACU-RITE 3 axis CNC
JET GHB 1340A Lathe - No DRO
2x JET Band Saw
Floor Mount JET JDP-20EVS Drill Press

What we are purchasing:
1 - Horizontal bandsaw, miter saw with bi-metal blade or abrasive chop saw
1 - belt/disc sander combo - probably JET with a 6in. belt
1 - Miller TIG welder and welding table
1 - Air Compressor ~40-60 gal capacity
1 - Bench Top Drill Press
2 - Shop Vacs
assorted power tools - drills, circular saws
MT3 and R8 Collet sets, R8 End Mill holders
assorted hand tools - Files, rubber mallets, socket sets etc.

I am looking for information for the list below:

1. KURT or Kurt Type work holding - I assume KURT is the go to brand for work holding.
2. Edge finders, digital preferred
3. End Mills and other cutting tools for the milling machines and lathe - Where do you buy your bits from? We are in Hawaii so Online sources are preferred.
4. Measuring tools, Calipers - digital, micrometers etc, I prefer Mituyo. Are there any other "good" brands?

Future Plans:
48x48 CNC Router
2 Bench top milling machines
2 Bench Top lathes

If I have missed anything important, please let me know. If you have any suggestions, please PM me or post here! We want to get this shop fully up and running by August.

Thank you!
T.Takashima
Team 2504/4270

I am used to running a limited resource shop so we usually buy cheap tooling etc.

[Fusion_Clint]

I highly recommend a Velox CNC router, we bought one of these with a HSD 3HP spindel last year and we love it.

http://www.veloxcncrouters.com/#!vr-5050-4-x-4/c23m8

[ttakashima]

That CNC router looks good! We will keep that in mind.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint

I highly recommend a Velox CNC router, we bought one of these with a HSD 3HP spindel last year and we love it.

http://www.veloxcncrouters.com/#!vr-5050-4-x-4/c23m8

+1. Our 2016 season would not be possible without it.

-Mike

[asid61]

What is the MT3 collet set for? It it's for the benchtop lathes I recommend moving to a 5c collet chuck instead of the MT3 spindle, as 5c collets allow for sticking stock out the back of the lathe.
I'm not sure you need R8 endmill holders either, as the Bridgeport-style mill you're looking at isn't going to be able to take more than a collet's load anyway. However, a pneumatic toolchager is fantastic for shorter students or just for convenience. It makes using the mill faster than walking over to the drill press.
You'll want vise and table-mount stops for your mill too for milling identical parts.
I generally look for deals on Ebay for non-precision stuff like clamps and stops.

If you buy benchtop mills, make sure they are not round-column. Dovetail column is practically a must due to numerous problems with moving round-columns up and down.

I would skip the horizontal bandsaw if you are already getting bandsaws and a miter saw. The latter two cover all your bases. Miter saws are easier to set up imo as well.

As far as edge finder I use manual, as they are cheap and repeatable. Electronics, while more expensive to be as good, are easier to use.
EDIT: make sure you do get a good indicator though for squaring up your spindle and table and centering holes.

End mills from closing machine shops and the like are my go-to (retired machinists also have good stock) but I highly recommend buying a carbide insert face mill for really nice finishes.

We have a Brown and Sharpe 6" for normal stuff and a 12" Mitutoyo for long stuff. I like both brands, and I think anything will work as long as it's reputable. Used Mitutoyos are really cheap on Ebay, but Brown and Sharpe are more expensive even used. Depending on the precision you're looking for used might be ok.
Dial calipers are easier to get a good measurement out of than digitals for me, as I can see the needle move to the "true" measurement.
I'm not sure you even need micrometers, as they are difficult to read and are usually overkill for FRC. However, a digital 0-1" Mitutoyo is only $40 used, and reads dead-on for shaft diameters.

A quiet air compressor lets people talk while working. I had to work with a really loud one for a couple years, and switching to a quiet one was an immense change.

[snoman]

We just got one of these
http://www.cncplasmacutterinc.com/
Plasma router combo mills aluminum well

[ttakashima]

Thanks for the Reply asid61!

1.Ill look at the 5C collet chuck.

2. The R8 End Mill Holders are for quicker tool changes with tools of the same shank dia. although a collet + power draw bar would be just as quick. Maybe we can save some money here!

3. We are looking at 1 or 2 KURT 690s for the CNC and 1 for the Manual with 5/8 clamp sets for each.

4. I thought about purchasing boring heads but with the CNC I didn't think one would be necessary.

5. Good idea on the dove tail over round column bench top mills, ill look into that once we know what our future funding is going to look like.

6. The horizontal bandsaw is an option due to being safer to operate. We will probably buy an abrasive cutoff saw first though.

7. A carbide insert face mill would be a great idea!

8. Thats 2 for Mitutoyo! Ill look into purchasing Brown and Sharpe calipers too.

9. Yeah, we currently work with a rather loud compressor. This one would be located in a side room out of the way. A quieter compressor is still something ill look for.

Thanks for the advice!

[ttakashima]

@snoman

Would you be willing to share the details on cost/table size that you purchased?

[Tmeziere]

My dad owns a cnc machine shop and he always buys end mills, vises and step jaws from MSC Industrial Supply.

Vices: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09215112
Step jaws: http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.co...p-single-side/

For end mills I would recommend 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, all 3/32 all three flute carbide:
http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/Mill...navid=12106227

You'll want vise and table-mount stops for your mill too for milling identical parts.

These ones work great: http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.co...p-single-side/

-Tim

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by asid61

I would skip the horizontal bandsaw if you are already getting bandsaws and a miter saw. The latter two cover all your bases. Miter saws are easier to set up imo as well.

Agreed. A horizontal bandsaw is nice, but it takes up a lot of space and takes a fair bit longer to set up. We got this compound miter saw and a higher-end non ferrous metal blade and it works great. Super easy to cut whatever angle you need very quick.

[ttakashima]

Those D688s are about $200 cheaper than the new 690, we may purchase these instead. Thanks for the info!

[Joey Milia]

Originally Posted by asid61

If you buy benchtop mills, make sure they are not round-column. Dovetail column is practically a must due to numerous problems with moving round-columns up and down.

...

As far as edge finder I use manual, as they are cheap and repeatable. Electronics, while more expensive to be as good, are easier to use.
EDIT: make sure you do get a good indicator though for squaring up your spindle and table and centering holes.

...

We have a Brown and Sharpe 6" for normal stuff and a 12" Mitutoyo for long stuff. I like both brands, and I think anything will work as long as it's reputable. Used Mitutoyos are really cheap on Ebay, but Brown and Sharpe are more expensive even used. Depending on the precision you're looking for used might be ok.
Dial calipers are easier to get a good measurement out of than digitals for me, as I can see the needle move to the "true" measurement.
I'm not sure you even need micrometers, as they are difficult to read and are usually overkill for FRC. However, a digital 0-1" Mitutoyo is only $40 used, and reads dead-on for shaft diameters.

A quiet air compressor lets people talk while working. I had to work with a really loud one for a couple years, and switching to a quiet one was an immense change.

I second all of this.

If your looking into bench top CNC mills look at the Nomad 883 by Carbide 3D, for the price its the best I've seen.

With edge finders I don't see the point in digital, just something else to run out of battery. The standard wigglers are great, Starrett is a reputable maker of those.

For dial calipers go Brown and Sharpe (what I use), they're the best. Starrett dial calipers aren't what they use to be. For digital I like the Mitutoyos.

For a quite compressor I think screw compressors are the way to go. 192 has a Kaeser.

[Steven Smith]

Originally Posted by Joey Milia

I second all of this.

For a quite compressor I think screw compressors are the way to go. 192 has a Kaeser.

One of the Youtube channels I frequent did a walk-around of a Kaeser screw compressor just a few days ago. I've got my eye on one as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDs5dr7whpM

[sanddrag]

We have two of this compressor.First one was installed about 3 and a half years ago, and it's been great since. It's able to keep up with two CNC mills with blow guns and air-powered hand tool usage without a problem.

[Cory]

A rotary screw compressor is not the answer for that equipment mix. Save $5k and get a good quality 2 stage reciprocating compressor that runs at 800 rpm. The 800 rpm ones are significantly quieter than the 1750 or 3450 rpm ones.