Pick Your Defense

[Taylor]

If you had to choose one defense for each section, and stick with that defense throughout the qualifications, which 4 would you select and why?

[Anthony Galea]

Category A:
Portcullis: Not many teams will be able to be successful at this defense.

Category B:
Moat: Its deceptively hard, it will be the most likely defense so see Tortugas this season.

Category C:
Sally Port: Its going to be a little harder to score on this one with alliance help than the Drawbridge.

Category D:
Rock Wall: Rough Terrain is very easy to cross.

[vhcook]

Barring any actual knowledge of opponent abilities, this is how I'd go:

A: Cheval de Frise - doesn't block vision as much as the drawbridge, requires precision driving
B: Ramparts - likely to flip a robot that attempts a "Dukes of Hazzard"-style crossing
C: Sally Port - harder to open from outside as it requires compound movement, blocks vision less
D: Rock Wall - I remember how few robots could clear the barrier back in Rebound Rumble.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by vhcook

Barring any actual knowledge of opponent abilities, this is how I'd go:

A: Cheval de Frise - doesn't block vision as much as the drawbridge, requires precision driving
B: Ramparts - likely to flip a robot that attempts a "Dukes of Hazzard"-style crossing
C: Sally Port - harder to open from outside as it requires compound movement, blocks vision less
D: Rock Wall - I remember how few robots could clear the barrier back in Rebound Rumble.

See, I'm going the exact opposite direction. I'm trying to pick everything that blocks everyone's view as MUCH as possible. We plan for our robot to operate as autonomously as possible during teleop navigating the field, so we won't much mind having difficultly seeing if everyone else does too.

[BoilerMentor]

I voted portcullis, rock wall, draw bridge, moat...

However, something we realized when considering this very issue is that while the rock wall and the moat are likely the more difficult driving (Type B and D) defenses, the rough terrain and the ramparts might have a more notable effect during auto, because they don't provide consistent frontal area across their width and might induce an angular misdirection.

[Drakxii]

IMO FRC is about speed so...

A - Cheval de Frise - It simply can't be done fast, as it will require precision driving since the arms need to move down as the bot moves up the ramp. Portcullis on the other hand can be quick defeated with fast well engineered arms.

B - Ramparts - More likely to throw fast bots off center then the moat will. Though if I thought the other team might high center on the moat I would go with that.

C - Sally Port - Harder hold open without getting in the way then the drawbridge.

D - Rough Terrain - Again will throw bots off center, also might high center teams. Rock wall will be easier to beat then people think with the ramp that leads up to the platform.

[ASmith1675]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

I voted portcullis, rock wall, draw bridge, moat...

However, something we realized when considering this very issue is that while the rock wall and the moat are likely the more difficult driving (Type B and D) defenses, the rough terrain and the ramparts might have a more notable effect during auto, because they don't provide consistent frontal area across their width and might induce an angular misdirection.

I had this exact thought. At the regional level of competition, the rock wall and moat might be the ideal selections, but as the level of competition increases and scoring in autonomous becomes more likely and more critical, the random nature of both the rough terrain and ramparts might be more advantageous.

I'm very excited about the strategic possibilities that this game sets up. Should make for an interesting meta-game as the competitions progress.

[Logan Byers]

A: Cheval de Frise - from my perspective on Team Indiana for Ri3D, we had to take more time manipulating the Shovel the Fries in order to traverse. The Portcullis wasn't as tough to manipulate and drive under.

B: Ramparts - While the moat can maybe catch a couple of wheel bases, the Ramparts will ultimately prove to be the most upsetting defense. You don't come out straight after driving through the Ramparts.

C: Sally Port - Both of these defenses can be easily traversed with some teamwork. But, if we're just talking one robot, the Sally Port is more awkward to manipulate.

D: Rock Wall - 4.5" ground clearance vs. small increments (3" or <) rough terrain. Rock wall is the easy choice here.

[Hgree56]

My picks:

Portcullis: Most teams I know aren't planning on going for it

Ramparts: unless your drive train is designed to go over it, you aren't

Drawbridge: One of our mentors was on Ri3D Team Indiana and he said it was the hardest defense to cross

Rock Wall: like the ramparts, unless you're designed to go over it, you aren't

[Taylor]

My choices were based on where gamesmanship meets gracious professionalism, and the murky waters* therein.

A: Cheese Fries are more time-consuming to defeat than the Pork cutlets. So CDF.
B: Teams are more likely to self-damage while performing Dukes Of Hazzard maneuvers, so Moat.
C: Sally Port is slightly less visually obtrusive, and I think requires more precision in teamwork to defeat.
D: Rock Wall for same reason as B.

To explain B and D - of course if a robot gets damaged executing some "hey y'all watch this" maneuvers, we'll send some of our pit crew over to help with repairs. This will also give our scout team and mechanical team some good info regarding robustness of robot designs, which could help us should we find ourselves in an alliance picking position.

*despite what you might think, this is not a direct confirmation of WATER GAME

[BoilerMentor]

Originally Posted by Taylor

A: Cheese Fries are more time-consuming to defeat than the Pork cutlets. So CDF.

It sounds like your pork cutlets are overcooked...

In all seriousness, I think type A will be the most variable one team to team. As of right now, we're struggling a bit with the portcullis, but Cheval de Frise takes only a few seconds more than the low bar. I believe our issues are mostly due to the the poor analog the version in the team field elements provides and that on a real field we probably wouldn't have any issues.

I really firmly believe the portcullis, is the maneuver requiring more coordination and could also serve as a robot trap if the door falls in an inconvenient spot.

[TheSousaLife]

I choose the Cheval, Rock Wall, and Ramparts. Mainly for the engineering difficulty required in crossing. However for placement. I think things like the Cheval and Ramparts will be placed more towards the middle and things such as the rock wall towards the outside. The reasoning is autonomous is harder on the side. So put more technical obstacles or ones that will upset autonomous should go more toward the center.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by TheSousaLife

I choose the Cheval, Rock Wall, and Ramparts. Mainly for the engineering difficulty required in crossing. However for placement. I think things like the Cheval and Ramparts will be placed more towards the middle and things such as the rock wall towards the outside. The reasoning is autonomous is harder on the side. So put more technical obstacles or ones that will upset autonomous should go more toward the center.

Sweet. Rock wall to the outside make my plans for a low-goal autonomous much easier.

[JesseK]

I voted by basing it off of top teams in quals at any event: inhibit autonomous as much as possible by injecting as much chaos as possible into autonomous routines. The crossing is a given for the most part - but surely we can make the shot(s) afterwards slightly more difficult.

Seems like pretty straightforward picks from that perspective:
- Cheval-De-Frise injects pitch and semi-unpredictable traction slip into the autonomous routine, whereas the Portcullis is the same super-simple routine every time.
- Ramparts require 'average' robots to contend with two rotational acceleration components (pitch & roll) rather than the moat's one (pitch). Autonomous traversal of the moat is so simple with the drive train that 2-ball autonomous routines will fill the moat with opponents' tears.
- Draw Bridge requires more movement of the drive train, whereas the Sally Port can be solved via extensions and little drive train movement. The first ball is probably a given for either, but IMO the draw bridge inhibits the 2nd ball the most.
- Rock Wall creates a high-side for most robots that must be accounted for in software or mechanisms, whereas a straight autonomous path through the rough terrain can be experimented with an eventually planned into how the robot is set down onto the field.

[Tharioth Pillow]

Does anyone else call them the Chile Fries? It's sort of a team thing now.