Team Update 10 (2016)

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by billbo911

G14 applies to interaction with the driver's console, not the robot.

G14 refers to drive teams, regardless of method of interaction.

Q654 confirms that auto is not hybrid in the specific case of a Kinect, but I see no reason to expect an on-robot camera to be any different.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

G14 refers to drive teams, regardless of method of interaction.

Q654 confirms that auto is not hybrid in the specific case of a Kinect, but I see no reason to expect an on-robot camera to be any different.

You are correct sir. I have edited my post to reflect this.

[MooreteP]

Table 2-2: Player Station Light String States and Meanings is gone, and now Table 2-3 Tower Strength Light States and Meanings is the indicator that the field is safe to enter, and the match is in its final 20 seconds.

I had this in the back of my mind when I wrote the Game Manual test.

Time for Rev. 2, a small change. more significant for the Drive Teams and less clutter on the Player Stations.

This may be a problem when a tower is weakened to zero, it may confuse an alliance as to the state of the tower.
Will the whole string blink in the final 20 seconds?
Will the only the top 1/3 blink if the tower has been captured?

IMHO, FMS nightmare.

I hope this adjustment works better than the updated website.
(Sorry, had to get in a dig)

The Game Reveal Video does in fact show the player station lights. My bad.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

Table 2-2: Player Station Light String States and Meanings is gone, and now Table 2-3 Tower Strength Light States and Meanings is the indicator that the field is safe to enter, and the match is in its final 20 seconds.

I had this in the back of my mind when I wrote the Game Manual test.
I was thinking, "The Game Reveal Video" didn't show the Light String at the bottom of the Player Stations, they'll be there, right?

Time for Rev. 2, a small change. more significant for the Drive Teams and less clutter on the Player Stations.

This may be a problem when a tower is weakened to zero, it may confuse an alliance as to the state of the tower.
Will the whole string blink in the final 20 seconds?
Will the only the top 1/3 blink if the tower has been captured?

IMHO, FMS nightmare.

I hope this adjustment works better than the updated website.
(Sorry, had to get in a dig)

They've known about this since at least this Tuesday, as Danny Diaz (the FIRST engineer doing scorekeeper training this year) mentioned during a training webinar Tuesday Night about this happening. IIRC he mentioned, at the time, that the exact fix hadn't been determined. Thus, my guess was they found out on Monday and by the time the Tuesday update was ready hadn't decided on a fix. That said, FMS is still in the works so much that the manual given to us Scorekeepers (and FTAs/FTAAs) isn't complete yet either, so they still have time to fix it. Compared to other last minute changes they've done before, this is pretty minor, at least in terms of FMS.

[Nathan Streeter]

Since the blue box in G22 hadn't received any love in this thread, I'm largely repeating my post in another thread... I just want to make sure this didn't slip by many people!

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

Draft of a question I plan to submit to Q&A:
------------------
Per Rule G22, would either of the following actions by blue robot initiate the 5 second countdown toward a pinning penalty:
a) Red robot is fully supported by blue batter and is in control of a boulder. Red robot appears to be preparing to score the boulder and does not appear to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot makes contact (single or repeated) with red robot and remains in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.
b) Red robot has released control of the boulder and appears to be attempting to leave the batter. Blue robot is in a position that would prevent red robot from leaving the batter.

In other words, does G22 provide limited protection to robots on the batter that are attempting to score boulders, or are they subject to normal defensive action as long as they are attempting to score and not attempting to leave the batter?

Have you seen the blue box added to G22 in Team Update 10 (scroll down)? It pretty clearly answers situation B...

Originally Posted by G22 Blue Box from Team Update 10

There is no FIRST Robotics Competition specific definition of pin, so a
general definition applies; “to prevent or stop something from moving.”
As a result, contact is not required for pinning to occur. For example, a
ROBOT parked right behind an opponent that is on the BATTER could
be considered pinning because the dividers on the BATTER and the
parked ROBOT prevent the opponent from moving.

I - personally - am disappointed to see this update that came late in the build season (and which flew under my radar until yesterday). We largely avoided designing around scoring from the batter based on concern with being pinned in. This update probably is good for the broader elevation of scoring, but further reduces viable defensive strategies.

Particularly if we end up having trouble scoring as accurately as we need from farther out, we may still be able to use the base of the tower as a "safe" shooting location.

Originally Posted by Mr. Lim

The definition of pinning a robot on the batter has been on my mind a lot right now too.

When a robot is fully on the batter, it's basically enclosed on 3 of 4 sides by the field. An opposing robot simply has to drive near the open side to be considering pinning it. Will refs call it this way, and start counting down as an opposing robot gets near?

The ambiguity opened up by the potential for non-contact pinning definitely does make this situation (and Wayne's situation A) more vague and subjective than I like. Hearkens back to some of the 2014 refing woes (although hopefully much less common).

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

Since the blue box in G22 hadn't received any love in this thread, I'm largely repeating my post in another thread... I just want to make sure this didn't slip by many people!



Have you seen the blue box added to G22 in Team Update 10 (scroll down)? It pretty clearly answers situation B...



I - personally - am disappointed to see this update that came late in the build season (and which flew under my radar until yesterday). We largely avoided designing around scoring from the batter based on concern with being pinned in. This update probably is good for the broader elevation of scoring, but further reduces viable defensive strategies.

Particularly if we end up having trouble scoring as accurately as we need from farther out, we may still be able to use the base of the tower as a "safe" shooting location.



The ambiguity opened up by the potential for non-contact pinning definitely does make this situation (and Wayne's situation A) more vague and subjective than I like. Hearkens back to some of the 2014 refing woes (although hopefully much less common).

Thanks for taking up the cause. I tried without success to post my question on Q&A (login issues). If anybody else wants to try to submit it (or something similar), please do.