How Hard is FIRST Stronghold?

[Ginger Power]

I disagree with the premise that if a team designs for the low bar, they are not also designing for the other defenses. I've worked with or seen 10 different teams' robots this build season and not one has told me "we just designed for low bar". Every team that is designing for low bar is also going to design for other defenses, or they're limiting their effectiveness to an extreme degree.

The overall point that I'm trying to make is that I believe the floor of the competition will be higher this year than it has been in the past. Partly because the game pushes you to make competitive decisions, and partly because there are more resources for teams then ever before.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

I disagree with the premise that if a team designs for the low bar, they are not also designing for the other defenses. I've worked with or seen 10 different teams' robots this build season and not one has told me "we just designed for low bar". Every team that is designing for low bar is also going to design for other defenses, or they're limiting their effectiveness to an extreme degree.

The overall point that I'm trying to make is that I believe the floor of the competition will be higher this year than it has been in the past. Partly because the game pushes you to make competitive decisions, and partly because there are more resources for teams then ever before.

I understand what you are trying to convey...

However, if you figure in that there are a very large amount of Rookie Teams trying to get a robot built in 6 weeks - most will go for the lowbar. Then you add in the large number of second year teams that did not have to interact with another alliance last season (that also have to adjust for defensive play as well as building bumpers) and had only 1-2 objectives to deal with in Recycle Rush - I fear there will be an exorbitant amount of teams that are as a default 'rookie teams' when it comes to interactive gameplay as we found in games such as UA, AA, or Rebound Rumble where there is so much going on.

And then you pile on the Rank Points to the scoring - this game is going to come down to specialization and who chose correctly, and then capitalized on that decision.

[Boltman]

The way I see it is Stronghold's main difficulties are in "Timing and Vision". I am fairly confident teams will come up with bots to do some/most/all scoring plays (assuming they have enough vision) the hardest part is doing the what I call 16 scoring plays( goal and/or cross a defense twice) as an alliance in 130 seconds with a 20 second endgame.

Last year timing was an issue too... the best bots efficiently stacked 6 with a can and noodle and had ultra efficient cycle times.

As for vision.... last year was half court this year full court with obstructions.

This year there are no relatively quick "multiple score"cycle possibilities to a close scoring platform, for instance there is no relatively quick 42 point plays to be had in under 30 seconds. This year its individual scoring plays the entire game many "scoring plays" of which take the same about of time as a 42 point play did last year.

That is where the difficulty is IMO this year.

Bottom line in Stronghold there is no one obvious killer strategy like last year due to lack of multiple high-score play actions. Teams will struggle match to mach based on their alliance partners and only the best will be good enough to be effective every match.

[GeeTwo]

This game is definitely harder than Aerial Assist, because there was a wide open field in AA and every point (except the auto mobility bonus) was from doing something with the ball. The game was about one thing.

It is also harder than Recycle Rush, because you have to worry about defense again.

It is slightly harder than ultimate ascent, because UA had no obstructions on the field apart from the pyramid, and the goals are smaller, though the climb is easier because you can do it in one cycle.

It is about as hard as Rebound Rumble. Obstructions (somewhat more mandatory than RR), small goals (somewhat easier than RR), ball pickup all but mandatory in both, some protection against defense when shooting in both, fairly difficult endgame in both.

That's as far back as I go with first hand experience, so I won't go into further details, but this does seem to be harder than half to three-quarters of the previous FRC games. It seems a bit harder because the previous three appear to have been easier than the median.

[Richard Wallace]

^ +1. What Gus said.

My experience goes back a little further. I think Stronghold is the hardest FRC game we've seen since 2004. Its autonomous challenges are significantly harder than any I can recall. As Dr. Joe says, there will be many matches that begin with one or more tortugas -- so teleop will often become an opportunity for drive teams to improvise under pressure. To play the hand they've been dealt, so to speak.

Scouting will be the hardest we've ever seen, because of the factors above and because of the number of possible variations of defenses.

[Knufire]

If I had to rank all the games I've been a part of in terms of difficulty to be a reasonably competitive robot.

1. Recycle Rush
2. Breakaway
3. Stronghold
4. Rebound Rumble
5. Ultimate Ascent
6. Aerial Assault

If i had to rank all the games I've been a part of in terms of a single robot accomplish every game task.

1. Ultimate Ascent
2. Stronghold
3. Recycle Rush
4. Breakaway
5. Rebound Rumble
6. Aerial Assault