Are these tanks legal?

[hwu24110]

I know the white Clippard ones are illegal, but we are unsure if these ones are. Unfortunately, they are all unmarked. It would help if we could determine what these are, whether or not they are the white Clippard tanks, since we heard not all white plastic tanks were illegal.

[Lil' Lavery]

I know some people will argue otherwise, but illegal or not, I would not use ANY plastic tanks on my robot. The failure mode is simply too dangerous.

[MrForbes]

If they are unmarked, you can't provide a part number and related specifications to show that they are rated to the required pressure, can you?

so I expect they are not legal just because of that.

[snoman]

The RI will not like them. Don't use it. That's my advice

[asid61]

Without a brand it's sketchy imo. Breaking $50 on new black Clippards could save you a lot of headache (or just heads in general).

[AllenGregoryIV]

Please verify the source of the tanks, they look similar to the pneuair tanks that we have been using for 3 years and other teams have been using since 2010. I've use dozens of these from pneuair and never had an issue. The only explicity illegal air tanks are the white clipplard brand air tanks. All other tanks that meet all the rules are legal but it is in the team to show documenation proving it.

[Mr V]

Where did you get the tanks? They look a lot like the tanks that AndyMark sells which have no markings on them which are legal.

Here is one of the 3 unmarked tanks they sell. http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2477.htm

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Please verify the source of the tanks, they look similar to the pneuair tanks that we have been using for 3 years and other teams have been using since 2010. I've use dozens of these from pneuair and never had an issue. The only explicity illegal air tanks are the white clipplard brand air tanks. All other tanks that meet all the rules are legal but it is in the team to show documenation proving it.

More specifically, the white Clippard tanks with the green lettering. (Do you have black ones? If yes, use those)

A good rule of thumb is, and this is for any COTS item with a not easily recognizable part number, keep a copy of the invoice or receipt from where it was purchased. A data sheet is even better to show the inspector.

[trumpthero786]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I know some people will argue otherwise, but illegal or not, I would not use ANY plastic tanks on my robot. The failure mode is simply too dangerous.

Hmm I can't imagine using anything BUT the plastic tanks, but you have far more experience than I do. What sorts of failures have you seen in them?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by trumpthero786

Hmm I can't imagine using anything BUT the plastic tanks, but you have far more experience than I do. What sorts of failures have you seen in them?

The failure mode of plastic tanks is a catastrophic release of high pressure air that quickly accelerates large sharp plastic pieces. These pieces, with the pressure FIRST allows, could shoot more than 100 feet (IE: into the crowd).

I have been close to a plastic (non-first) 1 liter volume that failed at 100 PSI. I can tell you I am lucky to be here (the volume blew out away from me).

The only way I'll have plastic pneumatic volumes on my teams robots is if it is completely enclosed in a box (to absorb as much of the energy as possible) and even with this setup, I would be reluctant to do so.

[rich2202]

If the tank has no markings, then you can't prove the white tank is NOT the disallowed tank. Thus I would reject is as an RI.

Are there any PSI markings on the tank? If you can't prove the tank can hold 125 PSI safely, then that is another reason to reject the tank.

[PayneTrain]

Hi!

We have been using these tanks since they went on sale back in the day. I can't tell from here the exact volume or port sizes your tanks feature, but searching up am-2477, am-2478, and am-2479 should give you relevant technical specifications that would help guide all but the most skittish RIs at your events. I also recommend getting some masking tape and writing "NOT CLIPPARD TANKS, PLEASE STOP COMING OVER TO OUR PIT AND TRYING TO TAKE OUR TANKS" because in my experience that will save you some stress.

It's your job as a team to make sure your robot is easy to inspect just as much as it is an RIs job to know what they need to look for when inspecting a robot.

I believe Allen is an LRI at various events. In this thread he's probably the foremost authority. I think it would be super if everyone else in legality threads could either feign honest understanding or step back instead of fearmonger, but I'm not a cop and can't tell people what to do.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by rich2202

If the tank has no markings, then you can't prove the white tank is NOT the disallowed tank. Thus I would reject is as an RI.

Are there any PSI markings on the tank? If you can't prove the tank can hold 125 PSI safely, then that is another reason to reject the tank.

The tanks in the picture and the disallowed clippard tanks look nothing a like other than their color and that they are air tanks. The team will need to prove their legality but just dissallowing them because they are unmarked is not a rule.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

The team will need to prove their legality but just dissallowing them because they are unmarked is not a rule.

It's not a rule, but the introduction to the robot manual says the burden of proof is on the team to prove the legality of any part.

That said, if I remember correctly, the illegal Clippard tanks very clearly say "Clippard" on them.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

It's not a rule, but the introduction to the robot manual says the burden of proof is on the team to prove the legality of any part.

That said, if I remember correctly, the illegal Clippard tanks very clearly say "Clippard" on them.

Correct that is what I'm saying.

Coastal Pneumatics seems to have bought out Pneuaire who we used to purchase from but they seem to be the same tanks.

Here is the data sheet on the storage volume chambers we have been using for several years without incident. https://www.coastpneumatics.com/pdf/RC%20canisters.pdf

I've posted this in other threads, I've have never been told of any plastic tank failures other than the white Clippard tanks. It's also my understanding the white Clippard tanks were the first plastic air storage devices that Clippard produced and they made them specifically for FRC. Clippard is an awesome sponsor of our program and they have gotten the design correct with their updated black tanks. Other companies that have been producing white storage volumes for many years have not had the same issues as the original white Clippard tanks.

Teams please keep track of your purchases and have data sheets ready for your inspectors.