Defensive robots

[whitetail]

What is your opinions on how effective the defensive robot will be in First Stronghold?

[sagi34]

very effective, in my opinion a good defensive robot will be a tall robot that crosses 1 defense in auto, play defence all the game and then in the last 20 seconds leaves to capture the tower. big bonus if he can also climb.
A good defensive robot will guard his tower, and prevent the other alliance from capturing it.

[Noudvanbrunscho]

Originally Posted by sagi34

very effective, in my opinion a good defensive robot will be a tall robot that crosses 1 defense in auto, play defence all the game and then in the last 20 seconds leaves to capture the tower. big bonus if he can also climb.
A good defensive robot will guard his tower, and prevent the other alliance from capturing it.

Since there are so many low bar robots i think we will see the 2013 pool noodle blocksystem again. And i think for the elimination matches, the second pick is going to be a good defence Robot which possibly is able to climb.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Noudvanbrunscho

Since there are so many low bar robots i think we will see the 2013 pool noodle blocksystem again. And i think for the elimination matches, the second pick is going to be a good defence Robot which possibly is able to climb.

Often, the best defense is a good offense so I would not be surprised to see a decent scoring robot taken over a good defender, if available. A defender can only do so much.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Often, the best defense is a good offense so I would not be surprised to see a decent scoring robot taken over a good defender, if available. A defender can only do so much.

For the top alliances at an event you'll have 2 offensive robots that are able to breach and weaken the tower by themselves. There is only so much value added by adding a third robot to cycle for points. I think a shutdown defender will offer way more value especially considering the lower seeded alliances will need to pick 3 offensive robots to breach and weaken the tower, leaving better defensive options for the top.

A shutdown defender will probably be able to prevent 2 mid-level robots from capturing. That'll be the difference at a regional level I think.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by sagi34

very effective, in my opinion a good defensive robot will be a tall robot that crosses 1 defense in auto, play defence all the game and then in the last 20 seconds leaves to capture the tower. big bonus if he can also climb.
A good defensive robot will guard his tower, and prevent the other alliance from capturing it.

How will you guard the tower to prevent capture? In the last 20 seconds it is best not to be in your alliance's courtyard.

With all the protected areas, a good defense is going to require good drivers that know the rules. Smart offensive drivers are going to make full use of the protected areas. Bad defense will rack up more foul points than they save.

[pilum40]

I'm a little concerned how a match that contains only "low bar" robots able to breach defenses without hanging will be anywhere competitive. It's the luck of the draw in my humble opinion. We're finishing our robot to low bar, shoot the low goal, breach all the defenses, portcullis, and hang. So far we can do all and will finish our hanger this week. We wanted to do everything but probably will concentrate on doing several things well. I don't think that strategy will get us to the finals. Just have to convince my drivers to be aggressive....it's way out of my hands now as the coach. The team is driving this robot from design to finish. I'm just handling logistics. That's how it should be in my opinion.

[Dezion]

Considering that most high shooters also seem to be going underneath the low bar, it will be easy to block shots with the right design. I can't state how many robots will be designed for this, but those that are designed like this will probably go into eliminations. After a team has two good high shooters and breach bots, a defensive robot would be a great option for the last member of their alliance.

Defensive drivers will have to be cautious though as to not incur penalties (of course, all drivers should be cautious regardless of their posistion on the field.) Pinning an opposing robot and pinning too soon may be very common penalties for a defensive bot. As well, defensive drivers must ensure they are out of the courtyard in the last 20 seconds, which I would not believe to be too much of an issue, as they would more than likely have a scaling device, due to the fact they would not be under the constraints of the low bar (meaning, depending on their design, they would have to raise their robot less or it will br easier).

A strong breach bot may fall back to defense after most of the opposing alliance's defenses have been damaged. This would occur more often if the breach bot could not score a high goal. I know that this will probably be our teams strategy if we are not needed to continue scoring goals or crossing defenses.

For example, an alliance may have a robot that can do the Low Bar, Cat B, and Cat D; a robot that can do Low Bar, Cat B, and Cheval; and a third robot that can do all defenses (or the vast majority to qualify as a breach bot). The breach bot would damage all the defensss the other two could not do, then play defense. As the other two robots went and scored goals, they would go over the defenses that they can, breaching all defenses, and scoring.

Strategies that utilize each robots' strengths and makes up for their weakness through collaboration will be the ones that succeed and win.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Often, the best defense is a good offense so I would not be surprised to see a decent scoring robot taken over a good defender, if available. A defender can only do so much.

Problem is, you will not find many good offensive robots third round at districts. More likely than not, you're better off trying to neutralize one of their 'bots with your third pick than try to use the pick to outscore them.

Originally Posted by FrankJ

How will you guard the tower to prevent capture? In the last 20 seconds it is best not to be in your alliance's courtyard.

With all the protected areas, a good defense is going to require good drivers that know the rules. Smart offensive drivers are going to make full use of the protected areas. Bad defense will rack up more foul points than they save.

If an alliance doesn't score the required 8 boulders (because their shots keep getting blocked and/or they keep getting hit out of aim), they can't Capture the Tower.

The key is to not draft bad defense, just like you wouldn't want to draft bad offense, or bad anything for that matter.

[PayneTrain]

In some cases the least capable robot on the field can still be worth 35 points! Do you think it's in the best interest of an alliance to keep that robot in their own courtyard for over a third of the match? Half of the match? More?

[Tatertot]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

In some cases the least capable robot on the field can still be worth 35 points! Do you think it's in the best interest of an alliance to keep that robot in their own courtyard for over a third of the match? Half of the match? More?

This year a robot with a good drivetrain (i.e. cross B, D, and low bar defenses) and literally no other mechs can score 40 points over the course of the match. Cross in auto, damage the others in teleop, and challenge at the end, 10+25+5=40. However, if two of these robots are on an alliance, instead of 40+40=80 points, the sum total between the two is only 50 points, 5 more points for crossing another defense in auto instead of tele, and another challenge at the end. In this situation it makes sense to have one of the bots playing defense in the courtyard.

[Dezion]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

In some cases the least capable robot on the field can still be worth 35 points! Do you think it's in the best interest of an alliance to keep that robot in their own courtyard for over a third of the match? Half of the match? More?

How will they be scoring 35 points?

Also, if the defensive robot could block 35 points from being scored, it would be effective. Also, a defensive robot could prevent the tower from being weakened, which would prevent it from being captured at the end of the match (which would prevent 25 points from being scored).

A robot that can only breach a few defenses is almost useless (provided they have no other feature). I know for certain one robot is capable of defeating ALL defenses. By having the robot that can only breach a few, focus on damaging defenses, after all defenses are done, the other breach bot will be left with nothing/little to do. Considering all points that could be scored by a robot that can do nothing can be scored by a breach bot, it will make much more sense strategically for the robot to do defense.

Consider:

Alliance A is composed of ROBOT A, ROBOT B, and ROBOT C
ROBOT A is a high scorer, which traverses the low bar multiple times.
ROBOT B is breach bot, which traverses all other defenses.
ROBOT C has little functionality.

ROBOT C should NOT breach defenses, as this can be covered by ROBOT B. If ROBOT C did breach defenses, ROBOT B may be left with nothing or little to do. Remember that you want your robots to be as efficient and be able to do as much of their abilities as they can. Why put a robot that doesn't focus on breaching on breaching?

[BenGuy]

Originally Posted by whitetail

What is your opinions on how effective the defensive robot will be in First Stronghold?

All you need to be good at defense is a sheet of plywood along the width of your bot extending as high as possible. That and good drivers would be hard to beat honestly. Even if other teams stay on the defenses, ect, a 4'6" high wall is hard to launch over even with a little space between robots.

[Dalas]

Our robot plans to have a set of arms at max height that can "lean over" an opposing robot to increase the effective blocking angle for short shooters. Hopefully this will make us more effective at defense than a purely inside-the-frame-perimeter defender.

Could we also get some advice driving defensively with mecanum wheels? We probably won't win any pushing matches, but we're hoping maneuverability will let us stay between a shooter and the high goal if they're moving around.

[MrJohnston]

How effective will a good defensive robot be?

It depends on what the robot is trying to defend. A cycling bot that specializes in going under the low bar, taking boulders from the secret passage and shooting from a specific sweet spot will be easy to shut down - the defender really just has to plant itself in the scoring bot's path the tremendously shut down its scoring capacity.

An offensive bot that can shoot accurately from multiple locations on the courtyard becomes more challenging to defend. If said robot can fire very quickly upon arriving at one of several different shooting locations should be able to score despite the best efforts of a good defender. If that offensive robot can also cross multiple defenses will be nearly impossible to stop.

In lower level competitions, yes a good defender will often be of extreme value. However, as the competition gets stronger, the value of defense - and therefore the tactics - much change. I suspect that the best defenders at higher levels of play will primarily focus on taking boulders away from the offense: Picking up missed shots and returning them to the other courtyard (or scoring them); stealing boulders from the secret passage; etc.)

I don't see a tall-lumbering defensive specialist with minimal scoring ability doing well past district level competitions...I anticipate that the ideal defensive bot at Champs will be a quick low-bar cycler with a fantastic intake that can run interference on defense and win races to loose boulders.